Poor trans shifting theory investigation

[TomCinMI]

... Relatedly, I Googled something else yesterday: "Ford service forum Edge ST transmission solenoid" (long-winded, yes), trying to dig up the service-forum thread which Fingernip's dealer told him mentions defective solenoids; after starting to become blurry-eyed while scrolling through the first five pages of search results, I noticed one for justanswer.com, where, for a $5 bill, I was told I could chat with an already-online Ford service tech; what the heck, 5 bucks, so I typed in the solenoid question, & within about a minute, a guy who claimed to be a retired Ford service manager came on, referencing the PCM-reprogram TSB before I even brought that up; he said that none of his searches of known online Ford service resources turned up anything about bad solenoids, either, inc. this one:

 

https://www.fordinstallersupport.com/

 

That guy went on to say that the TSB should always be addressed first, & only if it doesn't provide satisfactory results would a dealer typically then test solenoids; that said, if Fingernip's dealer is able to shed light on the supposed thread about a solenoid issue, awesome.

[Fingernip]

2 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

... Relatedly, I Googled something else yesterday: "Ford service forum Edge ST transmission solenoid" (long-winded, yes), trying to dig up the service-forum thread which Fingernip's dealer told him mentions defective solenoids; after starting to become blurry-eyed while scrolling through the first five pages of search results, I noticed one for justanswer.com, where, for a $5 bill, I was told I could chat with an already-online Ford service tech; what the heck, 5 bucks, so I typed in the solenoid question, & within about a minute, a guy who claimed to be a retired Ford service manager came on, referencing the PCM-reprogram TSB before I even brought that up; he said that none of his searches of known online Ford service resources turned up anything about bad solenoids, either, inc. this one:

 

https://www.fordinstallersupport.com/

 

That guy went on to say that the TSB should always be addressed first, & only if it doesn't provide satisfactory results would a dealer typically then test solenoids; that said, if Fingernip's dealer is able to shed light on the supposed thread about a solenoid issue, awesome.

I finally got the service report and they of course didn’t include anything from any Ford support forums. I insisted originally that they perform the TSB first and they assured they followed all procedures and the solenoid was the most likely culprit. Now 60 miles after the “fix” it’s still doing it. I’m now debating if I go back or to another dealership. 

[TomCinMI]

50 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

I finally got the service report and they of course didn’t include anything from any Ford support forums. I insisted originally that they perform the TSB first and they assured they followed all procedures and the solenoid was the most likely culprit. Now 60 miles after the “fix” it’s still doing it. I’m now debating if I go back or to another dealership. 

 

Sumpin' tells me that the manufacturer doesn't issue a TSB for it to be considered secondary/optional, particularly when one is experiencing the symptoms.  Sounds like a goofy dealer.

[Fingernip]

13 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

Sumpin' tells me that the manufacturer doesn't issue a TSB for it to be considered secondary/optional, particularly when one is experiencing the symptoms.  Sounds like a goofy dealer.

I think it was a stubborn mechanic. The TSB was issued the day after he diagnosed the problem and he decided to stick to his original suspicion. Now I have to bring it back tommorow and he will have to eat some humble pie as I requested the TSB 3 times before the work had actually been performed. 

[Perblue]

After a week of it learning it has made an even bigger difference since having the tsb done. Regular drive is starting to behave in similar ways to sport even, love it or hate it, holding onto a gear a bit longer before shifting. 

[Fingernip]

1 minute ago, Perblue said:

After a week of it learning it has made an even bigger difference since having the tsb done. Regular drive is starting to behave in similar ways to sport even, love it or hate it, holding onto a gear a bit longer before shifting. 

Has it starting dragging your mileage down?

[Perblue]

42 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

Has it starting dragging your mileage down?

 

No in city it seems to be staying about the same as when it first got flashed if not a little better. Under slow acceleration it doesn't hold at all. It only does it under medium to hard acceleration for a second, once it realizes you are done accelerating it then will immediately drop into the appropriate cruising gear. At any cruising speed it is significantly better mileage than prior to the flash. 

 

 

[jamie1073]

It has been a week since I got the TSB done.  It shifts so much better now but could still use some tweaking here and there to be perfect.  But it shifts to 8th as it should everytime it should.  I can even bounce between 7th and 8th with the paddles which I could not do before at 65 mph.  It still is indecisive on the downshift but that seems to be just an auto trans issue and if I paddle down a gear it is fine, although if I can paddle down then I think the damn computer should have done it for me since the trans is at the correct RPM's to allow it.  Can't comment on fuel economy since mine gets crap mileage anyway but mine did somehow increase last tank from 13.8 to 16.9 somehow even though I am driving exactly the same as always, but that was only 2 days after the TSB so it could not possibly be the reason.  Reverse seems to be slower to engage than before I noticed.  I tend to let off the brake assuming it is engaged like it used tor but it is not so I get a buck.  I  think that is about it for now. 

[Fingernip]

Just picked up my car after getting the TSB done. Definitely an improvement at light throttle. I haven’t gone far yet but it’s definitely much better than before. I can still feel a little hard shift when under a little more moderate throttle but It’s mild and is best compared to an old A4OD with A+ servo mod. In traffic I can’t feel heat changes vs before I would buck and jerk enough to toss my passengers heads around in the car. 

[jamie1073]

A quick question for those who have the TSB done, do any of you use Forscan on an iPhone and if so does it still work?  Mine no longer recognizes the PCM and wants me to manually enter the part number, but my other apps work to monitor the car. 

[omar302]

5 hours ago, jamie1073 said:

A quick question for those who have the TSB done, do any of you use Forscan on an iPhone and if so does it still work?  Mine no longer recognizes the PCM and wants me to manually enter the part number, but my other apps work to monitor the car. 

 

Clear the saved vehicle profile in ForScan so it will re-learn the vehicle with the new PCM strategy. Vehicle > Gear icon (settings) > Clear Cache. Though I have an Android phone, so not sure if it is the same setup. Also do it for the PC version when you do connect it.

[jamie1073]

14 hours ago, omar302 said:

 

Clear the saved vehicle profile in ForScan so it will re-learn the vehicle with the new PCM strategy. Vehicle > Gear icon (settings) > Clear Cache. Though I have an Android phone, so not sure if it is the same setup. Also do it for the PC version when you do connect it.

 

Thanks I will try that. 

[jamie1073]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:32 PM, omar302 said:

 

Clear the saved vehicle profile in ForScan so it will re-learn the vehicle with the new PCM strategy. Vehicle > Gear icon (settings) > Clear Cache. Though I have an Android phone, so not sure if it is the same setup. Also do it for the PC version when you do connect it.

 

Grrr.  Tried that.  The App seems to think I installed a tune and does not know the PCM anymore.  I even uninstalled and re-installed the app. 

[omar302]

Then email the ForScan team. Maybe they can help. 

[jamie1073]

32 minutes ago, omar302 said:

Then email the ForScan team. Maybe they can help. 

 

I posted on their forum.  After searching it seems to have happened in the past.  Probably just needs them to update the app. 

[TomCinMI]

On 4/17/2019 at 5:31 PM, jamie1073 said:

A quick question for those who have the TSB done, do any of you use Forscan on an iPhone and if so does it still work?  Mine no longer recognizes the PCM and wants me to manually enter the part number, but my other apps work to monitor the car. 

 

Curious: What other vehicle-monitoring apps do you use?

 

And I'll be having the TSB done on Mon.

[jamie1073]

3 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

Curious: What other vehicle-monitoring apps do you use?

 

And I'll be having the TSB done on Mon.

 

Car Scanner is the other one.  I really do not monitor often since it is stock, not like I did my Focus where I monitored ignition corrections and boost and temps after I made sure the other stuff was good to go.  But I did like to see how crappy the stock IC is.  I was curious as to what Charge Air Temps were after the IC in the warmer weather so I fired it back up.  I could not find that reading in the other app, i think I did but who knows.  I am curious as to what it gets to with 19psi of boost I seem to hit when it is in the 60's here compared to the 15-16 I get when cooler out.  I wish I could find an FMIC priced like the Depo 3.5 for the Focus.  They were only $350 for the unit and $500 for a 5.5 inch one.  Lol!

 

Back on topic.  After two weeks since the TSB I can say it does shift a heck of a lot better.  Still need to force a manual downshift on some corners but to be honest that is just the downside of not being able to row your own gears.  The paddles are easy enough to hit so it is ok, just wish the boost gauge would stay up instead of going to the tach instantly.  But that is more of an annoyance.  In a perfect world I would keep the tach on the left and put boost on the right display, they should have made that an option since I really do not need to see the radio in two spots or need to see the phone display.  Both are useless to me since they are right on the main Sync Display and easily accessible there.   I will play with Sport mode next week since I am giving up on trying to improve my crap fuel mileage. 

[Toby99]

I posted a similar question in the 2.0L forum.    https://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/26728-2019-edge-low-speed-surgebuck/

 

I have a 2109 Edge Titanium experiencing low speed, 15 - 20 mph surge/buck.  Transmission doesn't seem to shift well.  Curious if the TSB applies to mine.  I have no idea if I have the 8F57 transmission.

 

Update:  Called Customer Care and was told my Edge has the 8F35 transmission.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Toby99

[Fingernip]

38 minutes ago, Toby99 said:

I posted a similar question in the 2.0L forum.    https://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/26728-2019-edge-low-speed-surgebuck/

 

I have a 2109 Edge Titanium experiencing low speed, 15 - 20 mph surge/buck.  Transmission doesn't seem to shift well.  Curious if the TSB applies to mine.  I have no idea if I have the 8F57 transmission.

 

Update:  Called Customer Care and was told my Edge has the 8F35 transmission.

Yes the 8F35 is based on the GM/Ford 9 speed. The 8F57 is based on the older 6F55

[jamie1073]

22 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

Yes the 8F35 is based on the GM/Ford 9 speed. The 8F57 is based on the older 6F55

-

interesting I just assumed they were the same tranny with different programming.  Wonder why they used different units.

[akirby]

41 minutes ago, Fingernip said:

The 8F57 is based on the older 6F55

 

Which was also a joint GM/Ford design.

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, jamie1073 said:

-

interesting I just assumed they were the same tranny with different programming.  Wonder why they used different units.

 

Nobody that knows is talking but the last two numbers are torque capacity and the xx35 trannies are only good up to about 300 lb/ft while the xx57 is good up to about 400 lb/ft or more.  As to why they used the old 6F as the basis for the 8F57 and not the 8F35 (like they did with the 6F35, 55 and 57) is anybody's guess at this point.  Either there were technical issues or it was cheaper/faster.

[TomCinMI]

Checking in, 6 days post the TSB's PCM reprogramming.  Shifting has been much, much better, both in "D" & "S".  The Edge still stays in the revs a bit long when in Sport & transitioning 2nd-3rd gears, which is in keeping with the engineers' stated intent to retain access to more torque while exiting a curve--yet that rev hang now is not abrupt/harsh.  Adaptive learning may make things even better, & of course, fuel economy should be improved after the reprogram.

 

BTW, since @jamie1073 again has mentioned his "crap fuel mileage":  Both per my tripometer & Fuelly app's calc's, as someone who drives very close to 50%-50% city-hwy, I've continued to get nearly 22 mpg combined (exceeding that once), vs. the EPA's est. of 21--even though I broke in the vehicle starting on Nov. 2 & throughout the polar vortex.  I'm gonna resurrect the ST fuel-economy thread to update with my numbers after the next fuel up.

Edited April 29, 2019 by TomCinMI

[TomCinMI]

... I'll add again that I don't "ride the vehicle hard & hang it out to dry."  I did gain a lot in fuel-efficient driving habits as a 2-time hybrid owner; those habits have become ingrained with me, e.g., looking well ahead, coasting, feathering the accelerator when I already have enough momentum, etc.--which, I repeat, is how the EPA evaluates.

[vmaxbaby]

So everyone that got their TSB done are they still happy with the way the car is shifting?  How is the performance now that most of you have some miles on the car do you feel it has picked up any more power ?