Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code - coolant intrusion - TSB 22-2133

[Lincoln_]

Hello everyone,
a query, they have replaced the engine long block, as indicated the TSB , https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10210391-0001.pdf, or there is an alternative solution such as a sealant in the coagulant or similar.

[cherylwilson91]

I have a 2019 Edge SE that has been giving me problems since day one. I took it in 2 weeks after i bought it because it didnt sound good, they change some high pressure fuel thing, explained that is was still doing the same thing and getting worst. I have had several open tickets on it with manufacture and never anything was always told that it is normal. However here we are in 2022 and now its so bad that it keeps throwing a power train malfunction wrench on the dash and my ford pass app is telling me that my cars health check is all good and the fluid levels are all ok but they are not because the coolant level has been going down for months and there is no leak and now the car is idling high so it jerks when going form park to reverse and when driving the car shifts so crazy and the rpm gauge is moving up and down. Can anyone tell me what i should do i feel like im at my whits end with ford

[Haz]

Depending upon the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) involved in triggering the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL), and whether your Edge is exhibiting any white smoke/steam out of the tailpipe which may be related to the low coolant condition, you may want to print this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) and take it with you to the dealership...

 

Document download link: TSB 20-2234 - 2.0L EcoBoost - Illuminated MIL With Various DTCs, Low Coolant Level, White Smoke From Tailpipe, External Coolant Leak.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[cherylwilson91]

THANK YOU SO MUCH AND WILL DO 

[Edgy2019]

***UPDATE***
 

Well,  we replaced the motor with a new one from Ford.  $6,000 later, it’s still sputtering.   Looks like we are going to be checking the sensors on the transmission now.  Yay!!!!!

[cherylwilson91]

took the paper with me to ford and lets just say that the coolant is leaking out the egr cooler and my torque converter is stuck so 12880 is what they say will cost to fix everything, thank god for mechanical breakdown insurance.?

[dabangsta]

I am looking at a 2019 SEL, I see that 2019 Edge isn't listed in the affected vehicles. Is it because it has the revised Cleveland block, or the VEP block?

 

I am replacing a totaled 2017 Escape that had the 1.5, I had 96,000 miles on it and no issues with the coolant intrusion.

[1004ron]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:38 AM, Edgy2019 said:

***UPDATE***
 

Well,  we replaced the motor with a new one from Ford.  $6,000 later, it’s still sputtering.   Looks like we are going to be checking the sensors on the transmission now.  Yay!!!!!

Who's we?

 

Are you checking the transmission sensors in response to the engine spluttering?

[Haz]

dabangsta: While the 2019 Edge 2.0L EcoBoost you're considering is not listed as affected in the TSB origins of this discussion thread, 2.0L EcoBoost water intrusion issues for 2019-2020 Edge and 2019-2020 Nautilus are addressed by TSB 20-2234, as mentioned in my prior exchange with cherylwilson91, whose extended warranty coverage is saving her from paying for a significant engine repair.

 

On 11/14/2022 at 10:31 PM, Haz said:

Document download link: TSB 20-2234 - 2.0L EcoBoost - Illuminated MIL With Various DTCs, Low Coolant Level, White Smoke From Tailpipe, External Coolant Leak.pdf

 

As you may already be aware, water intrusion issues on your 2017 Escape's 1.5L EcoBoost were addressed by TSB  22-2322, though as a result of its total-loss collision disposition, title branding may remove any warranty coverage potential if the vehicle is repaired and resold.

 

Document download link: TSB 22-2322 - 1.5L EcoBoost - Low Coolant, White Exhaust Smoke And-Or Illuminated MIL - Built On Or Before 10-Jun-2019 - 08-12 2022.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[dabangsta]

Thank you! I did get the details for that other TSB, trying to get the build date for the vehicle (but that doesn't seem to matter since it was before 7/2020), and since it is within a thousand miles of the 5yr/60k powertrain warranty seeing if it has had the PCM update done. Since they are really not related (the internal "coolant intrusion" because of the way the cooling ports are designed, and the external EGR cooler), I was just wondering why the 2019 Edge was not part of the coolant intrusion when other models with the "same engine" have a part year 2019 affected in the TSB.

 

Buying a used few year old car I get to see what issues have arose, the block issue with coolant (I live in a high ambient temperature climate), flexplate issue, EGR cooler, first year for the 8 speed, etc...I want to be sure I get a vehicle that will last, I tend to drive cars well passed 250,000 miles if they don't get wrecked, so I gotta get it right or agonize for 15 years on where I went wrong.

 

The Escape was past the miles and grandfathered date for the CSP, but since it is totaled it is no longer my worry. However driving it putting miles on it wondering if it was going to happen wasn't a great experience. I took it in very early on for the PCM recalibration for the issue, it seems like all that did was make it circulate coolant longer after shutting it off.

[jt9813]

I thinking of purchase 2019 ford edge with the 2.0 eco boost engine. 

 

Did the head gasket issue fixed on the 2019 model year? 

 

 

[akirby]

It was changed in 2019 but I don’t remember if it was before or during the 2019 model year.

[Haz]

TSB 22-2229 relating to 2.0L EcoBoost coolant in cylinders applies to 2015-2018 Edges, but it does not extend to model year 2019 Edge production, which began in September 2018 (EDIT 2019).

 

TSB 22-2229 does apply to 2.0L EcoBoost engines in:

2019 Fusion/MKZ built on or before 04/08/2019; 

2019 MKC built on or before 04/18/2019; 2019;

2019 Escape built on or before 05/16/2019;

 

So, the 2.0L EcoBoost change was implemented in the April-May 2019 time frame. ( EDIT -- before model year 2019 Edge production began).

 

Good luck!

 

EDIT due to incorrect date.

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Haz

[dabangsta]

My 2019 Edge was built 1/6/2019, prior to the date that the new block was put onto the line and used. I thought that since it was a VEP engine it wasn't affected like the Cleveland (USA) block, but I guess only time will tell.

 

Mine already had the EGR cooler issue with overheating and leaking coolant and fixed.

[Haz]

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I'll try to look at Valencia Engine Plant versus Cleveland Engine Plant sourcing in the affected 2019 Fusion/MKZ/MKC/Escape.

 

Good luck!

 

[Haz]

As an FYI to jt9813, and with much appreciation to dabangsta for his reminder...

 

Document download link> TSB 20-2234 - 2019-2020 Edge-Nautilus 2.0L Ecoboost EGR Cooler - Low Coolant, White Smoke, Coolant Leak.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[ImSuperCereal]

Hi everyone,

So had to replace engine due to the terrible design of the engine causing leaking into the cylinders as I’m sure a few of you have.

I’ve ran into a bit of a conundrum and I just want to ask on here if anyone had run into the same issue after engine replacement.

I first noticed the issue when it smelled like coolant in the cab so I checked under the hood and indeed the coolant level was low. After some research I found the “TSB” (should have been a recall but you know how dealerships are sadly) I took it in and it was confirmed so long block replacement was done. The issue is, it’s been multiple months and I still smell coolant on start up. Thought maybe it was cabin air filter, so I replaced that to no avail. 
Has anyone experienced the same issue? Just wondering.

[MattSin97]

Hey everyone! So my wife's Hyundai Tucson engine blew up so I found a good price on a 2017 Ford Edge Titanium (2.0 L Ecoboost) and decided to pull the trigger. However, it was only after I have been reading a lot about the coolant in the engine issue and I'm terrified! How common is this issue? My car has about 70,000 miles, so if its going to happen, I would assume its going to happen soon. Anything I should do for preventative maintenance? We just came from an engine repair, would hate to have to deal with another engine issue, thanks! 

 

PS: I had a 2018 Mustang Ecoboost (FBO+Protune) and never had any issues, hopefully I get luck again. 

[sclarke]

First, I've got a 2016 Edge with the 2.0 Cleveland.  Car currently has 35K miles.  I'm the second owner as my father bought it new and didn't put a lot of miles on it. 

 

I've also got a P0302 code.  I'm just now reading this thread and seeing all the mention of coolant leak which is not encouraging, but also not sure if that's where I'm at...

 

My misfire started November 2021.  Went to autozone and replaced #2 coil per their diagnostics.  The car ran fine afterwards for a short while.  When it started happening again, I swapped plugs and coils from #1 and #2 to see if the code followed the coil and/or plug.  It didn't, the code stayed at #2.  Eventually I ended up replacing all plugs and coils and in doing so noted no damage on either the plugs or coils.  And thinking back, saw no signs of coolant...  My last occurrence with this episode was in Feb 2022.  Car behaved with no issues until it came back last month (Dec 2022).  

 

I've not noticed any smell or sounds of water.  I looked at my coolant reservoir and it's low...it has about 2" of coolant in it whereas the minimum line is at about 3".  I've never added any.  I did an oil change last month and it was black...no signs of milkiness. 

 

I took it to my Ford dealer last year and they didn't find or suspect anything different as I relayed to them what I had done with the swapping of the coils and they couldn't get the car to duplicate the miss.

 

And to add, I have successfully cleared the miss by pulling over and turning the engine on and off several times until the miss disappears (not feeling it at startup idle).  I traveled on the interstate this week and the miss started on two different occasions...each time I was able to pull onto the side of the road, turn the engine on and off and continue on without the miss.  

 

It's also more likely to happen if I turn the heat or the heated seats on.  Almost guaranteed to happen if I do those things. 

 

I'll top off the fluid and watch it and see if I have this going on.  Seems likely on this thread, but I would've thought if there was a coolant leak, my level would be a lot lower?

[dabangsta]

Quote

 

First, I've got a 2016 Edge with the 2.0 Cleveland.  Car currently has 35K miles.  I'm the second owner as my father bought it new and didn't put a lot of miles on it. 

 

I've also got a P0302 code.  I'm just now reading this thread and seeing all the mention of coolant leak which is not encouraging, but also not sure if that's where I'm at...

 

My misfire started November 2021.  Went to autozone and replaced #2 coil per their diagnostics.  The car ran fine afterwards for a short while.  When it started happening again, I swapped plugs and coils from #1 and #2 to see if the code followed the coil and/or plug.  It didn't, the code stayed at #2.  Eventually I ended up replacing all plugs and coils and in doing so noted no damage on either the plugs or coils.  And thinking back, saw no signs of coolant...  My last occurrence with this episode was in Feb 2022.  Car behaved with no issues until it came back last month (Dec 2022).  

 

I've not noticed any smell or sounds of water.  I looked at my coolant reservoir and it's low...it has about 2" of coolant in it whereas the minimum line is at about 3".  I've never added any.  I did an oil change last month and it was black...no signs of milkiness. 

 

I took it to my Ford dealer last year and they didn't find or suspect anything different as I relayed to them what I had done with the swapping of the coils and they couldn't get the car to duplicate the miss.

 

And to add, I have successfully cleared the miss by pulling over and turning the engine on and off several times until the miss disappears (not feeling it at startup idle).  I traveled on the interstate this week and the miss started on two different occasions...each time I was able to pull onto the side of the road, turn the engine on and off and continue on without the miss.  

 

It's also more likely to happen if I turn the heat or the heated seats on.  Almost guaranteed to happen if I do those things. 

 

 

I'll top off the fluid and watch it and see if I have this going on.  Seems likely on this thread, but I would've thought if there was a coolant leak, my level would be a lot lower?

The "coolant intrusion" issue generally only leaks coolant into the cylinders, and wouldn't show up as coolant in the oil.

 

Did the spark plug from 2 look cleaner than the others?

 

I still wouldn't associate your symptoms with the coolant leaking into the cylinders, 1 inch of coolant in the reservoir is probably close to a quart if it anything like my 2017 Escape (which I added maybe a pint to twice in 90k miles, it had the 1.5 which is even more likely to have issues).

 

I am wondering what the dealer checked other than trying to duplicate the miss. They should have done the coolant combustion/pressure check which would tell you a lot.

Edited January 28, 2023 by dabangsta

[Haz]

Below as PDF document download links are relevant sections from the 2016 Gasoline Powertrain Control / Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) Manual, and PCM Connector details from 2016 Edge Workshop Manual...

 

 

Document download links>

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) DTC P0301 Description-Action - 2016 2.0L EcoBoost - PC-ED Manual.pdf

PINPOINT TEST HD - MISFIRE DETECTION MONITOR - 2016 2.0L EcoBoost - PC-ED Manual.pdf

PINPOINT TEST Z - INTERMITTENT - 2016 2.0L EcoBoost - PC-ED Manual.pdf

OBDII Freeze Frame Data - 2.0L Ecoboost - 2016 PC-ED Manual.pdf

Reference Values - 2.0L Ecoboost - Section 6 - 2016 PC-ED Manual.pdf

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) Connector C1381B Details - 2.0 EcoBoost - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) Connector C1381B Location Illustration - 2.0 EcoBoost - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) Connector C1381E Details - 2.0 EcoBoost - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) Connector C1381E Location Illustration - 2.0 EcoBoost - 2016 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf

 

While I cannot offer any personal insights on these documents, I hope this information assists you toward resolving your Edge's indicated misfire condition.

 

Your mention that running seat heater and/or max climate blower directly causes the issue to occur, makes me wonder about the age/condition of your Edge's battery and/or charging components, just in case a low voltage condition may be inducing the miss, in whatever way it might.  Again, simply a curiosity, based upon your comment.

 

If I missed another document or section referenced within these, just let me know.

 

Good luck!

 

[Haz]

For a fuller understanding of how misfire events are recognized, evaluated, and reacted to by electronic engine controls -- technical, but eye-opening...

 

Document download link> Misfire Monitor - OBD Operation Summary for Gasoline Engines - 2016 Model Year.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[sclarke]

For a fuller understanding of how misfire events are recognized, evaluated, and reacted to by electronic engine controls -- technical, but eye-opening...

 

Document download link> Misfire Monitor - OBD Operation Summary for Gasoline Engines - 2016 Model Year.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

Haz-  Lots of info on that misfire monitor including shutting off the one fuel injector.    I haven't been able to schedule an appt yet with my local dealer though I've offered to drop the car off for the mechanic to just randomly drive when he goes somewhere (even take it home).  Anyway, if it were the coolant issue that is prevalent, wouldn't that be a consistent problem and not a hit or miss problem as I seem to be having?  Example, yesterday...37 degrees out...first trip from home didn't turn on heat or defrost (trips are small...5 minutes, 2 miles) it didn't have an issue.  Second trip a couple hours later I turn the heater/defrost on and within a minute it starts hesitating/missing.  Turn heat off, turn engine off.  Cycle on and off a few times and it's good again.  Now it will still occur without the heat, but it's more likely to happen if the heat is on.

Again, it cycled this some last year, but subsequently it didn't surface from March to December so it didn't seem to be something involving the warmer temps or the a/c side of the system.  But again, there would have been plenty of times there when I ran the heat still on cooler days, it just didn't pop up.

It baffles me a little with it not being continuous.  At least it seems better that it may not be the combustion chamber leakage.  

And no, when I changed plugs they all looked comparable.  None no better or worse looking than the others.  Which they would've only had about 25k miles on at the time.

[wingman54]

Hello, newbie to this forum here.

My Edge tossed out a code of P0301 on my ECM which equates to a "Misfire on #1 Cylinder".

Took it to my local dealer, who found out the reason behind the code.

Turns out, the engine block is cracked and allowing a small amount of coolant to enter the #1 cylinder.

Long story short, I'm getting a new engine and it falls within my 60,000 mile Powertrain warranty.

In my humble opinion, this is MAJOR surgery by any dealership.

So, my question is has this happened to anyone else on this forum, and what, if any, new problems arose AFTER the engine replacement?

Comments?

TYIA!

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by wingman54
typo, listed incorrect P code.

[colinc755]

On 12/27/2022 at 10:49 AM, Haz said:

TSB 22-2229 relating to 2.0L EcoBoost coolant in cylinders applies to 2015-2018 Edges, but it does not extend to model year 2019 Edge production, which began in September 2018 (EDIT 2019).

 

TSB 22-2229 does apply to 2.0L EcoBoost engines in:

2019 Fusion/MKZ built on or before 04/08/2019; 

2019 MKC built on or before 04/18/2019; 2019;

2019 Escape built on or before 05/16/2019;

 

So, the 2.0L EcoBoost change was implemented in the April-May 2019 time frame. ( EDIT -- before model year 2019 Edge production began).

 

Good luck!

 

EDIT due to incorrect date.

 

Theoretically, it may seem like the new blocks weren't used until that date, but the 2019 model year right as the refresh happened was the highest-selling year of that skew. Given how auto manufacturing works, many of those '19 sales were likely made before that supposed change. It is a good sign that we have not seen failures coming from 2019 Edges if such a large number were sold early. I can say from owning both a 2018 and 2019 Edge that the 2.0 used in my early-production model (it was one of the first Titanium Elites off the line) is a lot different than the one in 2015 through 2018 edges. In the same way the twin-scroll engines refreshed the 2011-2014 2.0 EcoBoost, the 2019+ 2.0's seem to be of a different "generation." The presence of the EGR system was changed, the appearance cover was deleted, and a few things moved in their mounting positions. While these changes don't sound like a lot, they signify that more things underneath were reworked. This is NOT the case for any of the other models listed on the TSB. The 2019 fusion never got a rework and overhaul. The MKC also never got one and was turned into the Corsair (which doesn't have the issue), and the Escape was also given a new generation around this time. Seeing as it was a block-level fix, I am willing to bet that the 2019 Edges rolled out with the new generation of 2.0, and the dates referred to there signify the date at which the blocks were swapped out in the supply chain for the existing models that were not receiving any accessory changes. 

 

What seems to be a key difference here as well is that all of the models listed here were married to the 6f35 transmission. In the supply chain, these are usually delivered to the assembly plant as a unit. ALL 2019 edges have the newer 8f35 transmission. Meaning that when the 2019 Edge's manufacturing process was designed, this newer block could have already been in mind. Again I mention that the other models here did not ever get the 8f35, so I think those dates signified when the existing stock of 2.0/6f35 combos ran out, and that is when Ford stepped in and changed the block for those existing models. 

 

I just want to state that this isn't confined but I think it makes sense given those dates and the lack of failures we have seen. I have been studying this issue for years now since getting my 2018 and have learned a lot (that engine plant stuff is total BS). The combo present in all of the 2019 Edge's (2.0/8f35) is one of Ford's most popular powertrains. The 2019 Edge was the start of it and does not seem to carry over the mistakes of the past. I don't think Ford was misleading people about which Edge's have it or don't in that TSB.