Cards227 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Anyone ever use the Mothers PowerBall? I picked one up on clearance at Target a while back and have yet to use it. Just wondering what experiences anyone has had with it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Anyone ever use the Mothers PowerBall? I picked one up on clearance at Target a while back and have yet to use it. Just wondering what experiences anyone has had with it. Thanks. I bought a big one and a little one. I found they were more of a pain than they were worth. I haven't used them since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnredman Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have a 2011 Edge Sport, what products should I use to keep my rims and tires clean and shiny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.edge Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have a 2011 Edge Sport, what products should I use to keep my rims and tires clean and shiny? Clean with your regular car wash mixture (Poorboy's Super Slick and Suds) using a separate bucket and a dedicated wash mitt (you don't want any of that brake dust/road crud getting back on your paint). You can use a brush on the tires but keep it away from the rims - they're painted and almost any kind of brush will end up leaving swirl marks. Once they're clean and dry, I use Poorboy's Bold and Bright for the tires. Spray on, let sit for a few minutes and then wipe off any excess. If they get really dirty with a lot of brake dust, I use something like P21S Gel Wheel Cleaner. Check out any of the detailing sites like http://www.detailedimage.com or http://www.adamspolishes.com for lots of other great tips and ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markt Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Canuck, I too am waiting on a White Platinum Edge that is actually being constructed today (Hurray!) cannot wait to get it to my driveway. I am an automatic car wash guy (I can hear the groans sorry all). What do you recommend to keep the 18" chrome clad wheels shiny and protected? Do you recommend a good tire shine as well? I see you using the MF abbreviation= micro fiber towel? Do you use these for all applications? Glass, wax removal etc..... Another question I see a lot of people asking is sealant, I should have someone seal it as soon as I receive it? I had never done that with any other vehicles. Thanks from a newbie Mark T Chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckG35 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Canuck, I too am waiting on a White Platinum Edge that is actually being constructed today (Hurray!) cannot wait to get it to my driveway. I am an automatic car wash guy (I can hear the groans sorry all). What do you recommend to keep the 18" chrome clad wheels shiny and protected? Do you recommend a good tire shine as well? I see you using the MF abbreviation= micro fiber towel? Do you use these for all applications? Glass, wax removal etc..... Another question I see a lot of people asking is sealant, I should have someone seal it as soon as I receive it? I had never done that with any other vehicles. Thanks from a newbie Mark T Chicago Mark, congrats on the purchase of your upcoming Edge! If you can, try and stay away from the automatic car washes.....even the touchless ones. The ones that touch your vehicle are obviously death to your paint. The touchless car washes use very harsh detergents to clean your vehicle will will drastically reduce the durability of any paint protection you have on your vehicle. To answer your question about keeping your wheels protected, I would recommend using a wheel sealant like Poorboys Wheel Sealant or Wheel Wax. For wheel cleaner, I like using P21S the best. Also like dr.edge I use Poorboys Bold N Bright as my tire dressing for all customer details. It's a fantastic water based dressing that doesn't sling whatsoever. Yes, MF = microfiber. Other than using a foam applicator to apply my sealants and waxes I use MF towels for virtually everything else. There is varying qualities of MF towels so try and stay away from the cheaper ones. Sealing your paint is just another alternative to a carnuba wax and will provide protection to your paint from the elements. Sealants last much longer than waxes which is why a large number of people and detailers use them. Unless you opted for some type of paint protection package from your dealership (which I never recommend), your Edge will not come with any type of paint protection applied. It's always recommended to apply protection to your paint to guard against UV rays, acid rain, bird bombs, etc. Since you are in the US, a great place to pick up some detailing supplies is www.detailedimage.com. They are extremely knowledgable and their service is top notch. I hope this helps however let me know if you have any other questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markt Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks for the help! Mark T Chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac AZN On the EDGE Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hi CanuckG35, I have been trying to find a reputable professional detailer to perform this magic on my new 2011 Platinum White Edge Limited and I have noticed that most of them does all the work in ONE day (generally 6-8 hours). That said, you have said that the order of detailing should be 1) WASH, 2) DRY, 3) CLAY, 4) POLISH and 5) SEAL. however some of the detailers I have been looking at does it like this" 1) Clay, 2) Compound (if needed), 3) Polish, 4) Glaze, 5) Paint Sealant, 6) Carnuba wax. What is the compound & glaze part of the job entail? Also, if I recollect properly, you recommend that the car be allowed to sit for 24 hours before the final procedure is done. How will skipping that part and doing it all in one day effect the final finish? Lastly, what is a fair price range to detail a vehicle like our Edge? Thanks so much for your invaluable information! Sac AZN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hi CanuckG35, I have been trying to find a reputable professional detailer to perform this magic on my new 2011 Platinum White Edge Limited and I have noticed that most of them does all the work in ONE day (generally 6-8 hours). That said, you have said that the order of detailing should be 1) WASH, 2) DRY, 3) CLAY, 4) POLISH and 5) SEAL. however some of the detailers I have been looking at does it like this" 1) Clay, 2) Compound (if needed), 3) Polish, 4) Glaze, 5) Paint Sealant, 6) Carnuba wax. What is the compound & glaze part of the job entail? Also, if I recollect properly, you recommend that the car be allowed to sit for 24 hours before the final procedure is done. How will skipping that part and doing it all in one day effect the final finish? Lastly, what is a fair price range to detail a vehicle like our Edge? Thanks so much for your invaluable information! Sac AZN Don't want to jump CanuckG35's answer, but with such a new car you might not need much of a polish. If Claybar is necessary, than a light polish might be in order after to take car of micro marring. Unless you have lots of marring, I would Wash and Spot clay, dry, polish as necessary, then seal. If you don't want to use a sealant, you can glaze and wax or just wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac AZN On the EDGE Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Don't want to jump CanuckG35's answer, but with such a new car you might not need much of a polish. If Claybar is necessary, than a light polish might be in order after to take car of micro marring. Unless you have lots of marring, I would Wash and Spot clay, dry, polish as necessary, then seal. If you don't want to use a sealant, you can glaze and wax or just wax. Thanks cal3thousand. The finish on my car still looks like I just got it from the showroom floor, so I guess I can easily skip the initial steps.But do you know what the compound & glaze is all about? If the car's finish is still in pretty decent shape and I have already put on an initial sealant (dealership), should I just wait another year or so before doing it again? ~SacAZN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Thanks cal3thousand. The finish on my car still looks like I just got it from the showroom floor, so I guess I can easily skip the initial steps.But do you know what the compound & glaze is all about? If the car's finish is still in pretty decent shape and I have already put on an initial sealant (dealership), should I just wait another year or so before doing it again? ~SacAZN Compounding is for severely damaged paint. It's like half way between polishing and wet sanding. You are "cutting" with a compound to level the paint. Definitely no need. Glaze is another coating that usually goes on before wax. If your car looks like its showroom fresh, do what I did: With the money that you would spend on a detail, spend it on detail products that will carry you for awhile. I bought a nice set of Microfiber towels ~ $50 32OZ. Optimum No Rinse (ONR) - $16 some spray bottles ~ $20 2 buckets ~ $15 ultima paint guard plus (UPGP) - $40 I use the ONR (1-1.5oz to 2 Gallons) with 2 buckets to wash the car in my carport. Washing one panel at a time, I dry each section as I finish washing it. One bucket holds the ONR solution and the other is your rinse bucket. Rinse in the Rinse bucket and drop the Mitt back into the ONR bucket while you dry. I have a spray bottle of ONR mixed to double what they say for Quick Detailer Strength and I use that as clay lube. After you dry each section, inspect for sections that may need claying (any imperfections that did not wash off). Clay it and dry the section. Make sure to use a Waffle Weave towel for drying. And DO NOT drop your towel. Treat it like prison soap! Any dirt that contacts it will tend to stick and you will end up scratching paint. You could complete the wash and clay in 45 minutes to an hour. The beauty of ONR is you do one section at a time and can stop and restart at any point. If you do need to polish (which I doubt) the time would be now. I just started with the UPGP at this point. This stuff is easy as all heck to use and one bottle will last 5 years if you did your car every week in it. It takes about 15-20 minutes to cover the Edge in this stuff. Basically, you spritz the applicator 2 times to prime it. Then you coat your car in this stuff. It goes on clear and you need to make sure every bit it covered. Your hood for example with take 2 primer spritzes and maybe 2 or 3 more. Whole car takes like 15 spritzes or something. If you don't want to use UPGP, there's plenty other sealants and waxes you could try. Wax will last 1 month, while this stuff lasts about 4 months. Do a search on it and see for yourself. PM me if you want to chat about it. Here's a pic of my hood paint surface after the second application of this stuff: Edited August 5, 2011 by cal3thousand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asc709 Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 CanuckG35, What do you suggest for hot weather care? The paint on my Mediterranean Blue SEL is deep and bright. She is garage kept but does spend some time sitting in the sun where temperatures can easily hit 110-degrees. I want the paint to sparkle look deep for many years to come. What do you suggest? Also, what keeps the plastic chrome plated wheels shiny? Is there anything safe for use to remove water spots without marring. I guess the same product can be used for the grille? Lastly, will Lexol rubbed into the steering wheel keep the leather soft? Thanks! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothballer Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 What a great thread!!! I didn't realize how poorly I was treating by baby (and it has only been 2 washes in...). I have had my 2011 Black Sport for a couple weeks now and have not been impressed with my efforts. I was used to a silver car that showed little imperfections but man does this black show everything. My first wash was with a microfiber wash towel, 1 bucket, and a terry cloth towel. My 2nd was with the 2 bucket system, a microfiber mit, and a shammy towel. Big fan of the 2 bucket system after seeing the dirt left in the rinse bucket, but I gotta find a new drying towel and think I am going to order the recommended waffle weave from DI. Is one enough to dry the whole suv or do I need two? Also what is the best exterior window cleaner? It seemed like as I was drying them that there was a film on them that wouldn't come off. I plan on doing a real detailing this fall in preparation for the harsh winter months of Cleveland, OH. After reading this thread I am pretty excited about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 What a great thread!!! I didn't realize how poorly I was treating by baby (and it has only been 2 washes in...). I have had my 2011 Black Sport for a couple weeks now and have not been impressed with my efforts. I was used to a silver car that showed little imperfections but man does this black show everything. My first wash was with a microfiber wash towel, 1 bucket, and a terry cloth towel. My 2nd was with the 2 bucket system, a microfiber mit, and a shammy towel. Big fan of the 2 bucket system after seeing the dirt left in the rinse bucket, but I gotta find a new drying towel and think I am going to order the recommended waffle weave from DI. Is one enough to dry the whole suv or do I need two? Also what is the best exterior window cleaner? It seemed like as I was drying them that there was a film on them that wouldn't come off. I plan on doing a real detailing this fall in preparation for the harsh winter months of Cleveland, OH. After reading this thread I am pretty excited about it. I have a Cobra Guzzler waffle weave (green) that dries my whole car. Granted, that is during ONR washes that don't take much drying OR after sheeting the water off with a hose. The WW towel isn't soaked afterwards either, it just feels damp. If you have "buckets" of water standing on your car after washing, you might want use a second towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothballer Posted August 8, 2011 Report Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have a Cobra Guzzler waffle weave (green) that dries my whole car. Granted, that is during ONR washes that don't take much drying OR after sheeting the water off with a hose. The WW towel isn't soaked afterwards either, it just feels damp. If you have "buckets" of water standing on your car after washing, you might want use a second towel. I do plan on using the sheeting effect next time I give her a bath. I am hoping that would help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckG35 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Hi CanuckG35, I have been trying to find a reputable professional detailer to perform this magic on my new 2011 Platinum White Edge Limited and I have noticed that most of them does all the work in ONE day (generally 6-8 hours). That said, you have said that the order of detailing should be 1) WASH, 2) DRY, 3) CLAY, 4) POLISH and 5) SEAL. however some of the detailers I have been looking at does it like this" 1) Clay, 2) Compound (if needed), 3) Polish, 4) Glaze, 5) Paint Sealant, 6) Carnuba wax. What is the compound & glaze part of the job entail? Also, if I recollect properly, you recommend that the car be allowed to sit for 24 hours before the final procedure is done. How will skipping that part and doing it all in one day effect the final finish? Lastly, what is a fair price range to detail a vehicle like our Edge? Thanks so much for your invaluable information! Sac AZN Sorry for being MIA lately, it's been a very busy summer. Now to answer your questions. Basically a compound and a polish are basically the same. An aggressive polish can be considered a compound and a mild compound can be considered a polish. If your paint is severely damaged you might require an aggressive compound (say 800-1200 grit). When using an aggressive compound like this, you would then need to follow it up with a light or fine cut polish to remove the marring and hazing left by the heavy compound. As for a glaze, their main job try and "fill in" paint imperfections. If your professional detailer is doing the job right, they really won't need to apply a glaze. One benefit about a glaze though is that is does provide a great shine before applying your LSP and restores original brilliance and clarity. If you are using a sealant/carnuba combo as your LSP, definitely allow the sealant to cure for 24 hours before applying the carnuba over top of it. Any other questions, just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckG35 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 CanuckG35, What do you suggest for hot weather care? The paint on my Mediterranean Blue SEL is deep and bright. She is garage kept but does spend some time sitting in the sun where temperatures can easily hit 110-degrees. I want the paint to sparkle look deep for many years to come. What do you suggest? Also, what keeps the plastic chrome plated wheels shiny? Is there anything safe for use to remove water spots without marring. I guess the same product can be used for the grille? Lastly, will Lexol rubbed into the steering wheel keep the leather soft? Thanks! Robert Every detailer has their own preferences as to what products they use. Having said that, my personal preference is Menzerna's Synthetic Polymer lock sealant. Durability with any product will be effected by environmental conditions and also your washing habits. I get approximately 6 months durability with Power Lock and just love the look it provides. As for your chrome plated wheels, I would use P21S wheel cleaner and Poorboys Wheel Sealant. PB's wheal sealant protects your wheels, makes them easier to clean, and cuts down on brake dust. For safely removing water spots, you can use a waterless wash product like Poorboy's Spray & Wipe or Optimum Instant Detailer & Gloss Enhancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckG35 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 What a great thread!!! I didn't realize how poorly I was treating by baby (and it has only been 2 washes in...). I have had my 2011 Black Sport for a couple weeks now and have not been impressed with my efforts. I was used to a silver car that showed little imperfections but man does this black show everything. My first wash was with a microfiber wash towel, 1 bucket, and a terry cloth towel. My 2nd was with the 2 bucket system, a microfiber mit, and a shammy towel. Big fan of the 2 bucket system after seeing the dirt left in the rinse bucket, but I gotta find a new drying towel and think I am going to order the recommended waffle weave from DI. Is one enough to dry the whole suv or do I need two? Also what is the best exterior window cleaner? It seemed like as I was drying them that there was a film on them that wouldn't come off. I plan on doing a real detailing this fall in preparation for the harsh winter months of Cleveland, OH. After reading this thread I am pretty excited about it. Good to hear you switched to the two bucket method. I would recommend getting two MF waffle weave towels from DI. Sheeting the water off of your paint drastically reduces the amount of water on your paint, but I still use at least two waffle weaves. Hands down the best glass cleaner is Stoner's Invisble glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swalker Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I must say, this is a great thread you have going here Canuck. I have read the entire thing in the last couple of days. I used to detail cars in high school (many years ago) and am pretty picky about my cars, but I have learned a lot reading these posts. I have only had my Kona blue Edge for about 5 days now and we love it. I did come up with a list of questions as I read that hopefully you guys can help me with. Here goes: 1) I see wheels and tires were addressed recently. My Edge has the 20" plastic chrome wheels. I'm a little irritated that I didn't realize that I paid $900 for plastic coated wheels until last night, but it is what it is. So to clean them better than soap and water you recommend P21S wheel cleaner? I typically use Eagle 1 All Wheel and Tire cleaner. It has worked well for me in the past. Does anyone know if this will hurt the plastic? 2) What is the proper technic for applying sealant? I know you said to put it on by hand. We always used to apply wax in a swirl motion, but I don't think that is recommended anymore. Is it the same for the sealant? I like the idea only only applying it twice a year and having good procetion the entire time between applications. 3) How long is a clay bar good for? I have the Meguires kit that I have used on my other vehicles and it works great. I store it in a small plastic container. Just wondering how long it's good for 4) How do you keep wax or sealant out of the emblems and moldings on the car? I always have a problem with that. My previous cars were light colored so it wasn't a huge deal, but with this dark blue car I think it will show up petty good. 5) The Optimum No Rince product you talk about sounds wonderful, but I guess I haven't quite figured out how you use it. Is it used just like normal car wash soap or with the soap or what. 6) How do you care for your MF towels? I assume machine wash with no fabric softener? Again, thanks for all the great tips and tricks. Keep them coming. I'm looking forward to ordering some stuff and making the Edge look really good before winter. Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swalker Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 One more thing I just throught of. I hate bugs and they are a pain to get off. What is the best way to easily and safely remove them when washing? Thanks. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 One more thing I just throught of. I hate bugs and they are a pain to get off. What is the best way to easily and safely remove them when washing? Thanks. Scott Plenty of existing threads on the subject of bugs: http://www.fordedgeforum.com/index.php?/topic/7301-ba-bye-salt-hello-bugs/ http://www.fordedgeforum.com/index.php?/topic/7826-dead-bugs-residuebest-way-to-clean/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckG35 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) I must say, this is a great thread you have going here Canuck. I have read the entire thing in the last couple of days. I used to detail cars in high school (many years ago) and am pretty picky about my cars, but I have learned a lot reading these posts. I have only had my Kona blue Edge for about 5 days now and we love it. I did come up with a list of questions as I read that hopefully you guys can help me with. Here goes: 1) I see wheels and tires were addressed recently. My Edge has the 20" plastic chrome wheels. I'm a little irritated that I didn't realize that I paid $900 for plastic coated wheels until last night, but it is what it is. So to clean them better than soap and water you recommend P21S wheel cleaner? I typically use Eagle 1 All Wheel and Tire cleaner. It has worked well for me in the past. Does anyone know if this will hurt the plastic? 2) What is the proper technic for applying sealant? I know you said to put it on by hand. We always used to apply wax in a swirl motion, but I don't think that is recommended anymore. Is it the same for the sealant? I like the idea only only applying it twice a year and having good procetion the entire time between applications. 3) How long is a clay bar good for? I have the Meguires kit that I have used on my other vehicles and it works great. I store it in a small plastic container. Just wondering how long it's good for 4) How do you keep wax or sealant out of the emblems and moldings on the car? I always have a problem with that. My previous cars were light colored so it wasn't a huge deal, but with this dark blue car I think it will show up petty good. 5) The Optimum No Rince product you talk about sounds wonderful, but I guess I haven't quite figured out how you use it. Is it used just like normal car wash soap or with the soap or what. 6) How do you care for your MF towels? I assume machine wash with no fabric softener? Again, thanks for all the great tips and tricks. Keep them coming. I'm looking forward to ordering some stuff and making the Edge look really good before winter. Thanks, Scott Hey Scott, I'd be happy to answer some of your questions. 1. I use P21S as I have found it to be the best wheel cleaner I've used. It's powerful, easy to use, and safe for all wheels. If you are happy with your current product, by all means continue using it. 2. The proper technique when applying sealants by hand (and waxes for that matter) is the straight line method and not in a circular motion. In a perfect world where everything is 100% clean, it really wouldn't matter. But nothing is ever 100% clean. What I mean by that is that your garage floor is never perfectly clean, the air is never free from contaminants, and it's possible that your applicator pad isn't 100% clean either. So with that out of the way, we'll assume that dust stirred up from your garage floor, airborne contaminants exist, etc. These abrasive particles things will obviously scratch your paint. So why the straight line method instead of the circular method? With the circular method, circular scratches can be seen in just about any angle, any light, and any height. With straight line scratches, you have to be at the right angle, the right light, and also the right height. This is a trick my mentor taught me a number of years ago. 3. Depends. A claybar's lifespan will completely depend on how much bonded contaminants it is removing from your paint. The dirtier it gets, the quicker you throw it away. Keep rolling it around in your hands until you find a clean spot. But when you can't find a clean piece, it's time to chuck it. And if you ever drop a piece on the grow, always throw it away. 4. I tape all of the emblems, mouldings around windows, mirrors, etc. 5. ONR is a rinseless car wash. I use this a lot in the winter time when the outdoor taps are froze. If you are in a place with water restrictions, it would also come in handy. It's a fantastic product, and I'd never be without it. Here is a demo of how to use it. http://video.google....800996428313622 6. I use Chemical Guys MF Detergent. Just make sure you do not use a fabric softener. 7. For getting rids of bugs, I use Poorboys Bug Squash. Relatively inexpensive and works great. Edited for being tired and fixing a bunch of spelling mistakes. Edited August 12, 2011 by CanuckG35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsons66604 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Wow. Thanks. It's nice when people on this forum are knowledgeable AND willing to help. So many times we come across uneducated people trying to mask that fact that they have no idea what they are talking about. sp update Edited August 12, 2011 by wilsons66604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swalker Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thanks for the help Canuck. That helps me a bunch. I may have to do some of this stuff without telling the wife though. I made a comment to her about needing to buy a bunch of expensive cleaner and she said I don't need it. What I've been doing works just fine. So I'll buy stuff a little at a time and she won't even know. :-) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunePearlEdge Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 What are your best strategies for fighting salt in the winter time on the sides and undercarriage of a car? I recently purchased a 2007 Edge that spent its life thus far in the Chicagoland area (we it will currently reside with me) and it has small bits of surface rust on the frame members on the undercarriage already. What are your thoughts on Rain-X or Aquapel or any other exterior glass rain repellant? Would you recommend any of the Motorcraft products for caring for my Edge? What do you recommend for vacuuming out the car, especially getting little bits out from between the front seats and the center console and under the front seats? Also, I notice that the previous owner may have used a household product such as Windex to clean the inside of the windows and windshield. When it’s foggy on the inside, the streaks are VERY apparent and distracting. What is the best way to remove these streaks and still clean the windows on the inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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