tneison Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 While driving 30 mph, no bumps, no impact from anything - just shattered. This was the rear piece of glass, not the front which moves when you open the roof up. Saw in some posts and on other forums this has happened before to people. Not sure if it has happened recently and/or what people's experience was with Ford on having it covered under warranty. In my case, the dealership said it would NOT be since Ford treats it like a windshield shattering. Couldn't believe that, but called Ford customer service and they submitted my request to their General Council and I'm to receive a written response in 15 days. I guess I can't blame the dealership, they are just following what Ford has decided. Has anyone else had recent (or any) experience like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 While driving 30 mph, no bumps, no impact from anything - just shattered. This was the rear piece of glass, not the front which moves when you open the roof up. Saw in some posts and on other forums this has happened before to people. Not sure if it has happened recently and/or what people's experience was with Ford on having it covered under warranty. In my case, the dealership said it would NOT be since Ford treats it like a windshield shattering. Couldn't believe that, but called Ford customer service and they submitted my request to their General Council and I'm to receive a written response in 15 days. I guess I can't blame the dealership, they are just following what Ford has decided. Has anyone else had recent (or any) experience like this? Never heard of it. Is everyone alright? No injuries hopefully. If they consider it like the windshield, do you think it will be covered under the windshield portion of insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Never heard of it. Is everyone alright? No injuries hopefully. If they consider it like the windshield, do you think it will be covered under the windshield portion of insurance? No injuries - just a minor cut from removing some of the glass. It could have been bad, especially if I had the roof open. Insurance doesn't treat it like a windshield - it falls under your comprehensive coverage with your deductible. I'll find out in a few days what the adjuster comes up with in terms of cost. Will be fighting this with Ford though, and insurance company indicated they'll help with getting reimbursed from Ford. I understand glass can break - it's glass - but it seems ridiculous that your roof can explode. Here are some posts from other occurences: http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2008/ford/edge/10237272.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Here is a view looking up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsons66604 Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 No injuries - just a minor cut from removing some of the glass. It could have been bad, especially if I had the roof open. Insurance doesn't treat it like a windshield - it falls under your comprehensive coverage with your deductible. I'll find out in a few days what the adjuster comes up with in terms of cost. Will be fighting this with Ford though, and insurance company indicated they'll help with getting reimbursed from Ford. I understand glass can break - it's glass - but it seems ridiculous that your roof can explode. Here are some posts from other occurences: http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2008/ford/edge/10237272.aspx WOW. Glad no one was hurt. Thank god for safety glass! I recall when the Honda Element had a rash of cracked windshields. Honda finally admitted to it being their fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Thank god for safety glass! Actually the pic might not do it justice, the part visible from the inside held together yes but if you look from the outside a good 2 inches along the back most edge came apart and flew off the back of the car, as well as in each of the corners a few square inches flew off. Not exactly like what I've seen from windshields - it definitely didn't hold together like you would think the roof over your head should. And NOTHING actually hit it - there was zero impact. Edited July 20, 2011 by tneison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 This is truly a case of WTF?!?! I'm so glad nobody was hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyf Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Actually the pic might not do it justice, the part visible from the inside held together yes but if you look from the outside a good 2 inches along the back most edge came apart and flew off the back of the car, as well as in each of the corners a few square inches flew off. Not exactly like what I've seen from windshields - it definitely didn't hold together like you would think the roof over your head should. And NOTHING actually hit it - there was zero impact. Only the windshield glass is safety - 2 pieces of glass with plastic sandwiched between. All others are tempered, which in theory, you can hit straight on with a hammer & it will not break. Hit the edge of the glass just slightly & you have a million pieces of broken glass. I believe your glass was not installed correctly. The body may have been in contact with an edge of the glass & body flex may have caused the implosion. Many times the edges of the glass remain in place after the break. If that is the case. the glass company may be able to tell if it was not installed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Only the windshield glass is safety - 2 pieces of glass with plastic sandwiched between. All others are tempered, which in theory, you can hit straight on with a hammer & it will not break. Hit the edge of the glass just slightly & you have a million pieces of broken glass. I believe your glass was not installed correctly. The body may have been in contact with an edge of the glass & body flex may have caused the implosion. Many times the edges of the glass remain in place after the break. If that is the case. the glass company may be able to tell if it was not installed correctly. Ok - thanks for the feedback. The auto glass insurance rep commented that, besides not having seen this in 14 years, that Ford should absolutely cover this due to the safety issue but also what is clearly some issue from installation or just a defect in the glass. I'll find out what the cost is here in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter306 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Definitely would press the issue hard if they try and tell you this the same situation as a Windshield. The roof should be covered by the bumper to bumper on a 4-day old vehicle, no questions asked. Please let us know how this turns out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Definitely would press the issue hard if they try and tell you this the same situation as a Windshield. The roof should be covered by the bumper to bumper on a 4-day old vehicle, no questions asked. Please let us know how this turns out... If you crash your 4-day old car, should that be covered by the warranty too? Not saying this glass shouldn't be covered - it very well could be a defect, but questions must be asked, because it absolutely could be damage that wasn't Ford's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter306 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 If you crash your 4-day old car, should that be covered by the warranty too? Not saying this glass shouldn't be covered - it very well could be a defect, but questions must be asked, because it absolutely could be damage that wasn't Ford's fault. Obviously, I'm discussing this in the context of the situation described in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 If you crash your 4-day old car, should that be covered by the warranty too? Not saying this glass shouldn't be covered - it very well could be a defect, but questions must be asked, because it absolutely could be damage that wasn't Ford's fault. Of course if I crashed the car it shouldn't be covered. Even if I didn't crash and something fell off of a bridge or tree and hit the roof I wouldn't expect it to be covered under warranty. That isn't what happened here. This exact issue was reported by others w/ the vista roof on the Edge and Flex (from what I have found so far). I'm not saying it is a pervasive problem - but what happened, happened and it has before. I can't see any angle to this where it wouldn't be the responsibility of Ford, but I'll give them the 15 days to respond accordingly. The one positive so far is the out of state dealer I bought this from has offered to split my out of pocket (deductible) costs for this repair. They didn't have to do that legally so that was an unexpected surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 While driving 30 mph, no bumps, no impact from anything - just shattered. This was the rear piece of glass, not the front which moves when you open the roof up. Saw in some posts and on other forums this has happened before to people. Not sure if it has happened recently and/or what people's experience was with Ford on having it covered under warranty. In my case, the dealership said it would NOT be since Ford treats it like a windshield shattering. Couldn't believe that, but called Ford customer service and they submitted my request to their General Council and I'm to receive a written response in 15 days. I guess I can't blame the dealership, they are just following what Ford has decided. Has anyone else had recent (or any) experience like this? It's very likely that it is a defect, but you don't know that for sure unless there was some evidence left behind. If something hit the glass and it shattered you wouldn't know it. It's easier to tell with the windshield since it doesn't shatter and you can see if there was an impact mark. But the idea that it HAS to be covered NO QUESTIONS ASKED just because there has been more than one is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It's very likely that it is a defect, but you don't know that for sure unless there was some evidence left behind. If something hit the glass and it shattered you wouldn't know it. It's easier to tell with the windshield since it doesn't shatter and you can see if there was an impact mark. But the idea that it HAS to be covered NO QUESTIONS ASKED just because there has been more than one is wrong. Well in this case, who do you suppose the onus lies with? Is it the consumer that must prove that nothing hit his car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiggins Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Tempered glass is a strange animal.....it's quite a bit stronger than regular glass, but when it fails, it tends to fail spectacularly and suddenly but safely (into those small chunks). It has great overall strength but a lot of potential energy. Just search the web for causes as to what can make it spontaneously fail. Deep enough surface scratches to the more common edge damage can set it off. The glass is in both tension and compression and when you eliminate the compressive stress on the outside of the glass enough, failure occurs. It's likely impossible to say for sure, but in a new vehicle on roof glass....one would think there was a defect in the installed glass - perhaps a gouge or nick on the edge or some anomaly within the glass panel itself. Otherwise you'd have heard and seen a pretty large impact on your roof prior to the shattering. I'd suggest doing some research on how tempered glass fails and presenting it to Ford/dealership in an effort to show them it might very well be a defect. IMHO if you have spontaneous destruction of tempered glass due to an impact of a foreign object, you'll know the object hit it. Roof glass failing like that, to my non expert opinion, is a failure in the glass beyond your control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Tempered glass is a strange animal.....it's quite a bit stronger than regular glass, but when it fails, it tends to fail spectacularly and suddenly but safely (into those small chunks). It has great overall strength but a lot of potential energy. Just search the web for causes as to what can make it spontaneously fail. Deep enough surface scratches to the more common edge damage can set it off. The glass is in both tension and compression and when you eliminate the compressive stress on the outside of the glass enough, failure occurs. It's likely impossible to say for sure, but in a new vehicle on roof glass....one would think there was a defect in the installed glass - perhaps a gouge or nick on the edge or some anomaly within the glass panel itself. Otherwise you'd have heard and seen a pretty large impact on your roof prior to the shattering. I'd suggest doing some research on how tempered glass fails and presenting it to Ford/dealership in an effort to show them it might very well be a defect. IMHO if you have spontaneous destruction of tempered glass due to an impact of a foreign object, you'll know the object hit it. Roof glass failing like that, to my non expert opinion, is a failure in the glass beyond your control. Strange indeed. Seeing as how a piece of spark plug ceramic can shatter it. I always thought resonance was the culprit, but it seems it is due to the hardness of the aluminum oxide. GO figure. Edited July 21, 2011 by cal3thousand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well in this case, who do you suppose the onus lies with? Is it the consumer that must prove that nothing hit his car? I think Ford should cover it if there is no evidence of a foreign object. But let's say Ford found a rock amongst the shattered glass. Would it still be a no-brainer that it should be covered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think Ford should cover it if there is no evidence of a foreign object. But let's say Ford found a rock amongst the shattered glass. Would it still be a no-brainer that it should be covered? I wonder how large would that rock have to be? would a BB sized pebble be enough to dismiss Ford from liability? I would think the car should be able to handle some amount of hail as well. I'm seeing a huge grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I wonder how large would that rock have to be? would a BB sized pebble be enough to dismiss Ford from liability? I would think the car should be able to handle some amount of hail as well. I'm seeing a huge grey area. All I'm saying is it's POSSIBLE for a foreign object to break automotive glass and that Ford needs to check it out to be sure before approving a warranty claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 All I'm saying is it's POSSIBLE for a foreign object to break automotive glass and that Ford needs to check it out to be sure before approving a warranty claim. Agreed, and I'm sure they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Agreed, and I'm sure they will. Just a quick update. Insurance claim estimate came in - $920 just in case you were curious. Again that is just the rear/fixed glass section. On the positive, Ford just contacted me after I submitted my complaint to their general council this past Tuesday. They are sending a field engineer to the local dealer next week to make the inspection. That's a pretty quick reaction. I'm sure Ford will see that it wasn't from any impact and will fix it due to the safety aspect of this, and like others posted I guess it is logical that they need to see it themselves. So, as frustrating as it was initially if by next week they step up and fix it I'll be happy. I'll let everyone know what the decision is by mid next week - hopefully this doesn't happen to anyone else. I'll have them update to Sync 2.11 while I'm in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) So the Ford engineer determined the shattering was from an object striking the glass - and they won't cover it. Attached is a photo of the area specifically they said was the impact point. In the lighting at my house and outside, this area didn't stand out. This shot was taken under the lights at the dealer - look at the middle of the pic and along the edge. What do you guys think? I know if there was any 'impact' it sure wasn't when I was in the car. Edited July 27, 2011 by tneison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal3thousand Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 So the Ford engineer determined the shattering was from an object striking the glass - and they won't cover it. Attached is a photo of the area specifically they said was the impact point. In the lighting at my house and outside, this area didn't stand out. This shot was taken under the lights at the dealer - look at the middle of the pic and along the edge. What do you guys think? I know if there was any 'impact' it sure wasn't when I was in the car. I'm not an expert by any means, but it *looks* to me like something did strike it on the left side spreading to the right. Whatever "struck" it must have bounced off... Sounds like insurance needs to pick up this bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tneison Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm not an expert by any means, but it *looks* to me like something did strike it on the left side spreading to the right. Whatever "struck" it must have bounced off... Sounds like insurance needs to pick up this bill. Yeah, I had that same reaction. I wish I knew when and what the hell could have possibly fallen straight down w/ the force to do this if that is what happened. Working on the insurance side of this mess now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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