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Premium gas vs. regular: what's really better


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#21 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 05:16 PM

I use 93 octane in my 3.5 Duratec since the timing will advance further than on regular fuel.


Nope. Not in a 2013 3.5L. At least there is no mention of it in the owner’s manual. Only the 2.0EB will do that.







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#22 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 05:35 PM

Yes it will.  PCMs are programmed to respond to octane changes since the 2011 MY of the Edge/MKX.  The difference likely won't be much as factory programming tends to be conservative.


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#23 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:14 PM

Yes it will.  PCMs are programmed to respond to octane changes since the 2011 MY of the Edge/MKX.  The difference likely won't be much as factory programming tends to be conservative.


Then why does the owner’s manual only say that premium will provide improved performance on the 2.0LEB engine?

#24 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 12:51 AM

I have not a clue about that.  I guess premium fuel makes enough of a difference on the ecoboost to satisfy the legal department at Ford?  I don't think it was a typo to leave it out, it just did not meet their threshhold.



#25 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 07:52 AM

I think it’s all in the pcm programming. The 3.5L is an older engine and doesn’t respond as well to advanced timing as the ecoboost engines do. So they probably just didn’t tune the 3.5L to advance the timing all the way like they did with the ecoboost. Or the gains were so small they weren’t worth mentioning.
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#26 OFFLINE   tk2fast

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 11:19 AM

From the 2019 Edge owners manual. 2.0LEB

 

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. 


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#27 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 12:35 PM

You really feel it's worth the extra $0.20 a gallon? Doesnt improve Gas milage. You drag racing?
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#28 OFFLINE   tk2fast

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 12:40 PM

I thought this to be "funny" as Ford still does not recommend fluid changes in the PTU, yet recommends using premium fuel.


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#29 OFFLINE   Simon F

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 02:11 PM

The only difference between the two is that premium has more anti-knock. If you run regular and the engine knocks, up it to mid-grade or premium.

Remember when it used to be called Ethyl?

Remember when you used to pull in gas station and the pump attendant would ask you which gas you wanted, (regular or Ethyl), clean your windshield, check your oil (I was taught to use two fingers under the dipstick colar to push an extra quart of oil) refill the windshield washer resovior (with water of course) & check the air in your tires?

Remember when we still used leaded gasoline?

Raise your hand if you've ever used to phrase "get the lead out".

Remember when most cars smoked a little, about one out of five were oil burners?

Remember when you use to have the roll the window down and stick your arm out to signal a turn? Straight out for a left turn, right angle pointing up for a right turn?

Remember when you used to "roll" the windows up and down?

Remember triangular "vent" windows?

Remember when windshield wipers ran on vacuum and would stop when going uphill or accelerating?

Remember when radios were optional?

Remember 9' long CB radio antennas that would whip back and forth when driving?

Remember balloon tires?

Remember 50/50 front shocks that would allow the front end to fly up in the air under hard acceleration.

Remember when two-tone paint jobs were an upgrade?

Remember when people would cover the upholstery with clear plastic seat covers to protect the cloth from dirt, oils and damage?

Remember when dashboards were made from metal and had a magnetic plastic Jesus sitting on them? (Remember the song "I don't care if it rains or freezes as long as I got my plastic Jesus, sitt'in on the dashboard of my car"?)

Remember fuzzy dice hanging from the rear view mirror?

Remember pop music where all song frequencies were were attenuated so they would play on a car's AM radio without distortion? (Chopped off the base and highs).

Everyone knows the corvette & T-bird. Remember the Studebaker Lark?

Remember the Nash Rambler? (It was like riding inside a basketball being dribbled.)

Remember the fins on a 59 caddy which mimicked the fins of a rocket; at the beginning of the "space age"? (Now THAT was a great car).

Remember cars that had "automatic" transmission's with a clutch pedal?

Remember baby dish moon hubcaps?

Remember "Big Daddy Garlits?

No? Neither do I.

 

I remember all of those things.    I am older than dirt.



#30 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 03:21 PM

You really feel it's worth the extra $0.20 a gallon? Doesnt improve Gas milage. You drag racing?


It does improve gas mileage but not enough to make up the difference in price. And where are you finding only a twenty cent difference in premium? Around here it’s around $0.60 or more.
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#31 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 06:44 PM

 
I remember all of those things.    I am older than dirt.

Just a young'n eh? Why I remember when it was just a rock.

#32 OFFLINE   AntDeek

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 06:42 PM

I can absolutly confirm there IS a difference in the 3.5NA. Using Forscan I can see an average of 35 degree timing advance, and with 93 octane, the VCT solenoids provide closer to 50 degrees.

 

Wether or not this provides a performance/economy gain is still up for debate, but the PCM definitly sees it. 

 

As far as price, here in NJ a tank of 87 costs me around $40, and around $45 for 93. Not a big difference at all. 


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#33 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 09:47 PM

I can absolutly confirm there IS a difference in the 3.5NA. Using Forscan I can see an average of 35 degree timing advance, and with 93 octane, the VCT solenoids provide closer to 50 degrees.
 
Wether or not this provides a performance/economy gain is still up for debate, but the PCM definitly sees it. 
 
As far as price, here in NJ a tank of 87 costs me around $40, and around $45 for 93. Not a big difference at all.


It must not have been noticeable for Ford not to mention it in the OM. Good to have some empirical data to go by though!
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#34 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 04:49 AM

Here in MD, cost for 93 can be significantly higher than for 87.  Costco usually has the lowest differential at about 40-45c/gal, while Shell tends to have the highest, up to 80c/gallon at some stations (!).


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#35 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:39 AM

It must not have been noticeable for Ford not to mention it in the OM. Good to have some empirical data to go by though!

 

It usually just comes down to marketing.  If Ford decides to advertise the peak HP on premium, they will put the note in the owner's guide.  The 3.5 was probably rated on regular, so no need to mention anything.


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#36 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:40 AM

 

As far as price, here in NJ a tank of 87 costs me around $40, and around $45 for 93. Not a big difference at all. 

 

That's more than 10%.  That's a huge difference.  Imagine how you'd feel if you got a 10% raise at your job...


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#37 OFFLINE   erikrichard

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 12:02 PM

Been using regular in our BMW 3 series for a few years now, these "recommend" premium fuel. We noticed no difference in power or mpg so why pay the extra $5/tank. Why someone would use premium in a vehicle that is recommended to use regular is beyond me.


Edited by erikrichard, 09 September 2018 - 12:02 PM.


#38 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 02:50 PM

Been using regular in our BMW 3 series for a few years now, these "recommend" premium fuel. We noticed no difference in power or mpg so why pay the extra $5/tank. Why someone would use premium in a vehicle that is recommended to use regular is beyond me.


Because in some cases it does add more power and mpg by advancing the engine timing. Whether you can notice it or not based on how you drive is an entirely different story.
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