Transmission Flush, or simple drain and fill?

[14AWD3.5]

I plan on trying the transfer siphon pump thru the dipstick tube approach. Already bought 5 qts of Mercon LV and the $17 hand pump (which I see from YTube is likely the same as the HF version for $7).  Anyway, despite wasting $10 (I could have gotten another qt of Mercon...) I hope to get appx 3 qts out of the pan that way, refill, drive about 10 miles, then do it again with the last 2 qts. Thats not 50% due to mixing old and new but its still a decent start at it.  
Dealer wanted $225 plus tax so about $245 to do a flush, I’d rather just do it over time myself.

I will report back next week when its done.

Edited March 14, 2020 by 14AWD3.5
Typo

[1004ron]

2 hours ago, 14AWD3.5 said:

I plan on trying the transfer siphon pump thru the dipstick tube approach. Already bought 5 qts of Mercon LV and the $17 hand pump (which I see from YTube is likely the same as the HF version for $7).  Anyway, despite wasting $10 (I could have gotten another qt of Mercon...) I hope to get appx 3 qts out of the pan that way, refill, drive about 10 miles, then do it again with the last 2 qts. Thats not 50% due to mixing old and new but its still a decent start at it.  
Dealer wanted $225 plus tax so about $245 to do a flush, I’d rather just do it over time myself.

I will report back next week when its done.

Keen to hear if you get more out using the oil extractor through the dipstick vs the drain plug.

 

Most folks use a lot more than 5 quarts to change over a higher percentage of the total volume.

Edited March 14, 2020 by 1004ron

[14AWD3.5]

21 hours ago, 1004ron said:

Keen to hear if you get more out using the oil extractor through the dipstick vs the drain plug.

 

Most folks use a lot more than 5 quarts to change over a higher percentage of the total volume.

I will try it Sunday or Monday and report back.  I have 8 qts of Mercon LV fluid now, which when mixed likely won’t be much more than 50%, if that, of really new fluid.  
I only have 64K on it so it’s not like it’s really old.

I will measure how much I can pull out of the dipstick tube so peeps know how that works.  
 

Edited March 15, 2020 by 14AWD3.5
Shorten response

[14AWD3.5]

Well I started it today, the Harbor Freight pump is exactly the same as the one from the auto parts store so save yourself $10 and go to HF.
 

The problem with their included hose is that it kinks easily.  The second issue that I found is that if you tape up the hose to pump connections (so the hose doesn’t come out of the siphon pump itself), then the hose collapses on itself as it creates too much of a vacuum.  (See update below)

Last and biggest problem is that there is a restrictor in the Edge’s dipstick tube which only allows an 1/8 inch diameter tubing to go down into the transmission pan. The 3/8” tube that comes in the syphon will not go down the fill pipe. Fortunately there was a short length of 1/8” included in the siphon kit.

 

I could only get 2 quarts out, and it was a slow process because the tube still tried to collapse upon itself and the 1/8 inch did not allow for a large volume transfer. Probably took me 20 minutes to get out that 2 qts. (See update about temp of fluid)

 

With less than 50,000 miles on this transmission fluid, it was browner than I would have liked (No red, all brown). So I’m going to continue with a slow process of extracting 2 qts at a time.  If you have a floor jack and the necessary ways of blocking your car up with, you likely will find it much quicker to drain out the 3 or 3 1/2 quarts by using the drain plug.
Sadly, I do not have a floor jack or anything else, and frankly it’s not worth $150 or more in parts to buy a floorjack and jackstands.  I don't wrench much.

 

I’ll let you know how things continue. Oh, you will need a long neck filler funnel to get down to where the transmission fluid opening is, your standard funnels will not reach. I had to cut the bottom out of a 1 liter water bottle and invert it.  Sigh.  Amateur follies!

 

***Update, later same day.  When the fluid is fully warmed up the hose doesn’t kink as much yet it still takes a good 10 minutes to siphon out 2 qts.  I did that twice more so there's been 7 qts changed out now.  I still have 2 more qts to do later this week, which will get me roughly 50% changed out, give or take. I'm going by the color of the fluid, as I have no idea how well the fluid has been diluted and thus has been replaced...

 

So is using the siphon pump worth it?  Not really, if you give your time any value. However, if you are like me and see no need to buy a floorjack and stands just to do this service then yes, it's ok.

 

One advantage of the siphon is that if you don't want to deal with 3-3.5 qts flowing out onto the ground/floor and then pouring all that off, it is easier to just pump out a "measured amount" like 1-2 qts, then pour that fluid into the new/old 1 qt containers and recycle that.

 

One last "plug" for only draining a portion as opposed to a complete flush for those who have put off changing their fluid to like 90-100K miles. There's so much controversy on the internet and on YouTube videos about whether or not you should do a complete flush. All I can tell you is that my local Firestone now will not do a complete fluid flush on higher mileage vehicles just because of the liability for the transmission... They refused to do mine, and I only had 63K.

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by 14AWD3.5
Added info

[1004ron]

Thanks for the update - I'll stick with the drain plug.

[14AWD3.5]

So where do you jack up the front from?

What suspension component do you use with a floor jack to raise the front up?

[1004ron]

4 hours ago, 14AWD3.5 said:

So where do you jack up the front from?

What suspension component do you use with a floor jack to raise the front up?

I think I did the transmission drain with it on ramps.

 

Just this past weekend I had it up on stands to rotate tires and replace the front brakes - the position of the floor jack lifts it level.

 

 

[handfiler]

And the Samuel Adams keeps the owner level ?

[14AWD3.5]

Ok thanks.  I may buy a set of ramps one day.

 

i changed out 2 more qts of ATF this pm,  the fluid is now reddish-pink.  Getting there...  6 more qts sometime next month and that will be it.  

Total cost will be less than 50% of the dealer’s price and that includes the pump.  The other thing will be not “shocking” the trans with all new fluid (if you subscribe to the belief that fluid changes can upset the delicate solenoids).

[1004ron]

1 hour ago, handfiler said:

And the Samuel Adams keeps the owner level ?

I added that to show a friend that I got "paid up front", .......by myself.  LOL

 

Damn good beer.

 

The rotor laying on the floor is the 8 month old 9K mile Power Stop that started making a growling noise and slight vibration at low speeds - they promptly sent a complete new kit, but will go with solid rotors next time.

[Cerberus]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:19 PM, 1004ron said:

The rotor laying on the floor is the 8 month old 9K mile Power Stop that started making a growling noise and slight vibration at low speeds - they promptly sent a complete new kit, but will go with solid rotors next time.

I had a similar problem with slotted rotors on my old 2011 Fusion sport.

I figured out that it was the slotting of the rotor that was causing the noise, it sounded somewhat like a bad wheel bearing or flat spotted tire but only while on the brakes.

Don't be surprised if the new ones do the same thing..

 

[14AWD3.5]

Back again. Borrowed a set of ramps (actually were old style steel and really too high, probably 9-10’” of lift), the pan was tilted backwards so I backed the car down 1/2 way on the ramps, chocked the rear tires and that leveled it out.  Then pulled the trans plug bolt. That’s a small bolt, fooled me (7/16” I think).  I was expecting a lot larger, like 5/8 maybe.  
Then drained 5 qts, I only had 4 qts of Mercon LV but found 1 qt of Mercon L from a p steering fluid change so in it went.  
I should be about 85-90% changed now, this is easier once you have the ramps figured out. And it is still cheaper than the dealer.

I will just make by own 2x8”or 2x10” wood ramps, a lot lower height though.

[aplustool1]

 "I backed the car down 1/2 way on the ramps".....Scary thought... I know the front wheels are locked by the tranny, but that is a lot of weight pushing in an angle.

[1004ron]

On 6/2/2020 at 6:06 PM, 14AWD3.5 said:

Back again. Borrowed a set of ramps (actually were old style steel and really too high, probably 9-10’” of lift), the pan was tilted backwards so I backed the car down 1/2 way on the ramps, chocked the rear tires and that leveled it out.  Then pulled the trans plug bolt. That’s a small bolt, fooled me (7/16” I think).  I was expecting a lot larger, like 5/8 maybe.  
Then drained 5 qts, I only had 4 qts of Mercon LV but found 1 qt of Mercon L from a p steering fluid change so in it went.  
I should be about 85-90% changed now, this is easier once you have the ramps figured out. And it is still cheaper than the dealer.

I will just make by own 2x8”or 2x10” wood ramps, a lot lower height though.

Not wise to mix the fluid types.

 

https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/autotransfluid#:~:text=Mercon LV—the latest Ford,used to replace those fluids.

Quote

Mercon LV—the latest Ford ATF, it is factory fill in 2008 and later Fords. The LV stands for "low viscosity." It is a fully synthetic ATF. It is not compatible with earlier Mercon fluids, so it should neither be mixed with Mercon or Mercon V used to replace those fluids. It is not compatible with any other fluid, either.

 

I don't believe that only one Drain-Fill gives you 85-90% change - how did you arrive at those numbers.

 

I would not climb under a vehicle while is half way up the ramps.

[Gmandude]

My dealer checks mine and I’m at 65 k still no signs of anything they suggested not doing yet might do a dump n swap 

[14AWD3.5]

Regarding the 85-90% statement, I had already siphoned out multiple quarts so by draining from the pan bolt that made something like 15 qts having been drained and refilled.

 

As far as the ramps, they were some industrial version (as opposed to the WalMart variety) from the auto mechanic across the street.  It was all I could do do to lift and carry one of them at a time. 
 

Mixing fluid, well, guess I’m no purist.  A 1/12 qt ratio doesn’t really bother me. It’s being redrained from the bolt within a month anyway.

 

But I do appreciate all your concerns.  I’m more concerned with the power steering pump whine I now get since I siphoned out and refilled 3x (after bleeding).  The whine won’t go away.  Maybe it takes after its owner, I dunno’.

[colinc755]

WARNING: Make sure you can remove both the leveling plug and the fill plug BEFORE draining the transmission!!!!

 

Recently I embarked on a task that was, in theory, simple, but in reality, was hell. That task, of course, was a routine transmission fluid change on the 8F35 transmission (found in 2019+ edges with the 2.0). As it turns out, Ford has made changing the transmission fluid on this car incredibly difficult, but there are some useful things I learned along the way that should hopefully make it easier for any DIY'ers wanting to take this on.

 

The 8F35 fluid change procedure is pretty much identical to the 6F35 procedure found in the '15-'18 2nd gens. This means that there is no dipstick, fluid level is checked by a leveling plug in the left front wheel well. Sounds simple enough, many cars do this, so what's the big deal? Well, Ford decided to absolutely bury the pressure ring fit fill plug underneath a ton of immovable objects (this is unlike the 6f35 which actually had a very easy-to-access fill plug).

 

Like the shop manual says, the airbox must be removed. This is simple enough but because of the amount of "Christmas tree" wiring harness holders, you will likely be cutting a few zip ties. I would actually recommend cutting them because the wiring harness they hold is actually not in danger of hitting anything. Once the airbox is removed you must first find the cap under all the crap they buried it under. Be careful not to damage the MAF when moving the airbox away from the car.

 

Once that is done, filling the transmission is not as simple as removing the top plastic cap. You must also remove the funnel that the cap rests in because Ford placed a piece of plastic in between the cap and the funnel, blocking any fluid that tries to enter. To remove this you must get a pair of needle-nose pliers and pinch in the snap ring and pull up on the assembly. This window that the pliers can fit in is incredibly tiny and removing this funnel will take a lot of patience. Once the funnel is removed, keep track of that plastic piece that sits inside it. You can now fill the transmission with fluid, I would recommend trying to match what came out and add .25qts-.5qts to it (this is because if you pour too little fluid you can't add anymore without removing everything you just removed).

 

Once all the fluid has been added, you must now reinstall the funnel for the cap. This is where the tip comes into play. Because of the amount of stuff in the way, it is pretty impossible to squeeze the snap ring in and also push the funnel down in the right spot at the right time. What I ended up doing to solve this was to squeeze the snap ring in and have a partner wrap a zip-tie around the teeth (of the snap ring) that the pliers were grabbing onto. If you tweak this and get it tight enough, the zip-tie should hold it at maximum tension. I had to use a large zip-tie so that it did not snap. With tension held, the funnel can be easily slipped on and the rest can be reinstalled.

 

You must now hook up a scan tool and go for a test drive to get the fluid hot enough to level it (usually a 20-minute test drive). Just another side note, the leveling plug is torqued an insane amount from the factory so be prepared to break out the breaker bar and extensions to snap it loose. When you get back from this test drive, pray that at least some fluid trickles out of the level, or it's back to step 1. You can actually do an initial level before the test drive by starting the car and running it through all the gears and then checking the level plug. Just make sure the car is still idling when checking the leveling plug. That initial check is only supposed to be for an overhauled transmission, but it could save driving around with too little fluid for half an hour. 

 

Anyway, sorry that seemed like a bit of a rant. There is just a lot of unneeded complexity to this routine maintenance item. It seems Ford has made drain and fills extremely difficult, maybe they'd rather people get their transmissions flushed by machines at dealers than to have the fluid changed by regulars at home. To anyone that gives this a shot, good luck. I was originally going to make all of this a video but was too tired and annoyed by the end of all of it. If these instructions aren't clear enough, I may still do that. I will attach the factory ford guide, it makes the job seem WAY easier than it actually is. 

Transmission Fluid Drain and Refill.pdf

Edited November 9, 2021 by colinc755

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

good info, nice writeup.

[krzyh7]

Hello

 

This is my very first post here so would like to welcome the community:)

 

And the question is - how much fluid do I need for the change procedure?

[colinc755]

1 hour ago, krzyh7 said:

Hello

 

This is my very first post here so would like to welcome the community:)

 

And the question is - how much fluid do I need for the change procedure?

That’s tough, I remember it taking like 5.5-6qts when it was all said and done but I like to have a margin for error so I always recommend buying 8 quarts for it. It’s around 5 dollars a quart if I remember right.

[krzyh7]

ok, thanks a lot

[kruzr1]

Thought I would post this here as a comparison/reference. 

I recently did a fluid change on my 2019 Edge ST with the 8F57 transmission. I did not encounter any problems that colinc755 had with his 8F35 transmission. I did remove the airbox to get easier access to the fill/vent plug but there was nothing else attached to it, it came straight out. On a side note, I could've probably just removed one of the intake hoses to gain access to the fill plug. The fill plug itself was easily accessible and was held on by a squeeze clamp and came off easy.  Neither the drain plug or level plug were difficult to remove, used a 3/8 drive ratchet with a 3/8 hex socket to remove the level plug. I did remove the tire and set the ride height with a jack and stand to get access to the level plug but turns out it can be reached by turning the wheel out. The amount of fluid that came out was 4 quarts and 12 ounces. My work shop manual says this:

2. Remove the transmission vent cap and fill with transmission fluid.
   1. Transmission overhaul (includes main control and torque converter drain)
      Volume : 6.34  qt ( 6  L)
   2. Main control overhaul or replace (with out transmission overhaul)
      Material : Motorcraft® MERCON® ULV Automatic Transmission Fluid / XT-12-QULV (WSS-M2C949-A) (MERCON® ULV)
      Volume : 5.28  qt ( 5  L)

I refilled with 4 quarts and 16 ounces. The hardest part was probably trying to get the transmission up to operating temp. I drove around for at least 20 minutes and also used sport mode to help. When I did get to the leveling procedure, I had some fluid seep out for a bit and then slowed to a drip and I reinstalled the level plug. I have been monitoring fluid temps off and on since without any issues.  I don't have a lot of miles on my ST but I believe in being proactive, and as has been said before "no fluid lasts forever". I've also replaced fluid in my PTU and RDU already.

[colinc755]

28 minutes ago, kruzr1 said:

Thought I would post this here as a comparison/reference. 

I recently did a fluid change on my 2019 Edge ST with the 8F57 transmission. I did not encounter any problems that colinc755 had with his 8F35 transmission. I did remove the airbox to get easier access to the fill/vent plug but there was nothing else attached to it, it came straight out. On a side note, I could've probably just removed one of the intake hoses to gain access to the fill plug. The fill plug itself was easily accessible and was held on by a squeeze clamp and came off easy.  Neither the drain plug or level plug were difficult to remove, used a 3/8 drive ratchet with a 3/8 hex socket to remove the level plug. I did remove the tire and set the ride height with a jack and stand to get access to the level plug but turns out it can be reached by turning the wheel out. The amount of fluid that came out was 4 quarts and 12 ounces. My work shop manual says this:

2. Remove the transmission vent cap and fill with transmission fluid.
   1. Transmission overhaul (includes main control and torque converter drain)
      Volume : 6.34  qt ( 6  L)
   2. Main control overhaul or replace (with out transmission overhaul)
      Material : Motorcraft® MERCON® ULV Automatic Transmission Fluid / XT-12-QULV (WSS-M2C949-A) (MERCON® ULV)
      Volume : 5.28  qt ( 5  L)

I refilled with 4 quarts and 16 ounces. The hardest part was probably trying to get the transmission up to operating temp. I drove around for at least 20 minutes and also used sport mode to help. When I did get to the leveling procedure, I had some fluid seep out for a bit and then slowed to a drip and I reinstalled the level plug. I have been monitoring fluid temps off and on since without any issues.  I don't have a lot of miles on my ST but I believe in being proactive, and as has been said before "no fluid lasts forever". I've also replaced fluid in my PTU and RDU already.

That is good to hear that they left it accessible on the ST. The older 2.0's had a process very similar to yours and it was fairly easy. Good to see you noticed the wheel well accessibility for the level plug, I started thinking about that when I did it last and am going to try it next time. Removing the wheel isn't hard at all, but would be nice to skip if it wasn't absolutely needed. That fluid warmup time is also pretty crazy, I always try to tell people to really get a scan tool for it, because it takes a lot to get it up there. 

[Nooch]

 

     I have just completed changing my transmission fluid in my 2019 Ford Edge 8F35 and the Colinc755 post was dead on about this job, (a nightmare). I just joined this forum and put out a post regarding the little restrictor in the vent/fill pipe and the only reason I can come up with it's existence is for splash/spill over from the tranny. Any Ideas? I would like to remove it as it would make adding fluid a lot easier.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Nooch said:

 

     I have just completed changing my transmission fluid in my 2019 Ford Edge 8F35 and the Colinc755 post was dead on about this job, (a nightmare). I just joined this forum and put out a post regarding the little restrictor in the vent/fill pipe and the only reason I can come up with it's existence is for splash/spill over from the tranny. Any Ideas? I would like to remove it as it would make adding fluid a lot easier.

Let the dealer do a fluid swap with the machine using the cooler lines.  Gets 97% of the old fluid and runs about $200.