Poor trans shifting theory investigation

[ktp1598]

So I tried the paddle shifting in sport mode and while it's a little funny, it's irrelevant to us as we don't ever use the paddles. If I want to shift for myself I have a 19 GT/CS with a 6-speed manual for that. ? 

[Snoking]

5 minutes ago, ktp1598 said:

So I tried the paddle shifting in sport mode and while it's a little funny, it's irrelevant to us as we don't ever use the paddles. If I want to shift for myself I have a 19 GT/CS with a 6-speed manual for that. ? 

Our summer park has a 5 MPH speed limit and it is ten minutes to the gate. 360 Acers and 22 miles of roads inside the park with 1485 sites. SO, I put the Edge ST in Sport and paddle lock it in 1st gear, instead of riding the breaks all the way to the gate or to the site coming back home. With my 2015 RAM 3500, there are less steps to lock it in 1st, and I do it with the truck also. The Edge brakes will never last as long as the trucks, as I run with the exhaust brake on all the time and that really cuts down on service brake use. Let up on the Edge and it just continues to roll on without slowing much. Just don't follow the truck to closely as the brake lights seldom come on. 

[akirby]

58 minutes ago, ktp1598 said:

So I tried the paddle shifting in sport mode and while it's a little funny, it's irrelevant to us as we don't ever use the paddles. If I want to shift for myself I have a 19 GT/CS with a 6-speed manual for that. ? 

It’s not intended to be used all the time like a manual.  It just allows you to hold a higher or lower gear for better performance or better mpg or as just stated to reduce brake use especially when descending long mountain roads. 

[ktp1598]

So I learn a little something every day. Most of the magazines I read show the paddles being used on tracks and the like. Plus I had a friend that used them regularly in a fusion. Never thought about using it on a hill. I suppose if it were used sporadically it'd be fine but I don't have any experience with them in any other vehicle so my opinion doesn't carry much weight. In a nutshell it doesn't shift as smooth as I would expect when using the paddles. That would probably work fine for what you're doing. I work in the body shop at an assembly plant for Ford Motor Company and it really bothers me that they can't get the transmissions (in some vehicles) to work as well as anybody else's. If Kia can do it why can't we? ?

Edited October 16, 2020 by ktp1598

[BillE]

6 hours ago, ktp1598 said:

So I tried the paddle shifting in sport mode and while it's a little funny, it's irrelevant to us as we don't ever use the paddles. If I want to shift for myself I have a 19 GT/CS with a 6-speed manual for that. ? 

Thanks for your response.

[Snoking]

Has anyone figured out if 0-60 and 1/4 mile times improved with the June 2nd tranny TSB? If the tranny is shifting better, maybe it will match or beat the Sport now, given the higher HP rating. C n D are you listening?

Edited October 24, 2020 by Snoking

[Fingernip]

1 hour ago, Snoking said:

Has anyone figured out if 0-60 and 1/4 mile times improved with the June 2nd tranny TSB? If the tranny is shifting better, maybe it will match or beat the Sport now, given the higher HP rating. C n D are you listening?

I haven’t seen much difference in 0-60 but C&D had it at 5.7 to 60 which I feel is quite good considering it’s heavier than the sport. They used harsh wording that criticized it for the same things they praise other brand vehicles for. Without perspective the review looked bad but there was an awful amount of bias in their article that just made it look bad for no reason. 

This is no tune. Full tank of 93 with worn out all seasons and a 180lb passenger. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Fingernip

[Fingernip]

Saw this article and thought its a great place for it here. 

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/diagnosing-the-erratic-shifting-fords-8f35-57/

 

[rlmoulic]

I have a 2019 nautilus 2.7L AWD with about 15,000 miles.From late March until early April it has shifted into neutral at least 6 times. The gear shift module(push buttons on left side of sync3 display) was replaced previously. This typically happens when slowing for a turn or stop, then pressing accelerator to continue. Engine revs, card doesn't move. N is lit on the GSM and D is no longer lit. Reselect D and car moves. Supposedly all PCM software is up to date. Car has now been in shop for 2 weeks today. Any ideas on what is causing this problem?

[Vanquished]

They put a 7 speed transmission in the new 2021 ST. 

 

As a 2020 owner I really hope it's not significantly quicker than ours, though it really should be since ours should be doing 0-60 in 5 seconds flat with the power we have and AWD. 

[todd92]

It's the same transmission, except 2nd gear is programmed out.  In theory a software update should be applicable to 19's and 20's.

[Vanquished]

23 hours ago, todd92 said:

It's the same transmission, except 2nd gear is programmed out.  In theory a software update should be applicable to 19's and 20's.

Really??? 

 

Well do our cars already skip gears like the mustang 10 speed or no?

 

If no then I guess the 2021s must be faster.

[Fingernip]

9 hours ago, Vanquished said:

Really??? 

 

Well do our cars already skip gears like the mustang 10 speed or no?

 

If no then I guess the 2021s must be faster.

I would not be surprised if the 2021 run the same programming as the post TSB vehicles. I don't see any reason for the 2021 to be any faster since 2nd is skipped anyway (even pre TSB its skipped under heavy acceleration). They likely call it a 7 speed to avoid lawsuits in the future. 

[todd92]

It did not skip 2nd if manually shifting, and 2nd gear is so close to 3rd ratio wise it's useless.  The workaround is a quick double tap to force a skip.  Eliminating it is even better.  Best would have been if Ford spaced the ratios correctly.

[Vanquished]

On 5/24/2021 at 7:49 AM, Fingernip said:

I would not be surprised if the 2021 run the same programming as the post TSB vehicles. I don't see any reason for the 2021 to be any faster since 2nd is skipped anyway (even pre TSB its skipped under heavy acceleration). They likely call it a 7 speed to avoid lawsuits in the future. 

I wasn't aware that it skipped 2nd already. Idk its just a bit underwhelming. Why can the standard x5 do it in under 5 seconds when our cars take 5.7? Despite weighing less and having more torque? I mean I know x5 = more expensive but... the edge st is supposed to be sporty lol. It has to be terrible gearing, right? 

[Fingernip]

29 minutes ago, Vanquished said:

I wasn't aware that it skipped 2nd already. Idk its just a bit underwhelming. Why can the standard x5 do it in under 5 seconds when our cars take 5.7? Despite weighing less and having more torque? I mean I know x5 = more expensive but... the edge st is supposed to be sporty lol. It has to be terrible gearing, right? 

Likely mostly due to Ford limiting boost in the first few gears. Stock tune with traction control off pointed straight will barely break lose the tires. BMW also always underrates their power numbers. The 3.0 likely makes upwards of 400hp. 

 

[todd92]

Don't forget X5 is RWD architecture, Edge is FWD.  Makes a difference launching.

[CrackedDSM]

2 hours ago, todd92 said:

Don't forget X5 is RWD architecture, Edge is FWD.  Makes a difference launching.

 

Huge difference. If you look at a similarly modded F150 with the 2.7L they cut vastly superior 60’ times and do way better 0-60 than we do. RWD bias AWD systems are the truth. 

[akirby]

4 hours ago, todd92 said:

Don't forget X5 is RWD architecture, Edge is FWD.  Makes a difference launching.

Actually edge ST launches in AWD under hard throttle.  The problem is the trans, PTU and driveshaft have to be protected by limiting torque in lower gears whereas the X5 and other longitudinal setups have much more robust drivetrains that don’t require as much torque management.

[Vanquished]

Meh. 

 

I probably should have done some research or test drove before buying. I didn't realize the fwd bias would make such a difference. Frankly I don't care about the 0-60 time that much. 5.7 seconds is plenty fast. Even in my Scat Packs I only broke 5 seconds occasionally and that felt like lightspeed. Normally I'd do it in around 5.5-6 seconds.

 

What does bother me is the feel. It's probably due to lack of boost like you're saying but there is no enjoyment off the line with these cars. So underwhelming.

 

I tested a Ford Edge Sport with the ecoboost before I got either of my scat packs and maybe I'm misremembering but I could have sworn they had a lot of oomph off the line. Maybe I just didn't know what fast was at that point.

[Fingernip]

54 minutes ago, Vanquished said:

Meh. 

 

I probably should have done some research or test drove before buying. I didn't realize the fwd bias would make such a difference. Frankly I don't care about the 0-60 time that much. 5.7 seconds is plenty fast. Even in my Scat Packs I only broke 5 seconds occasionally and that felt like lightspeed. Normally I'd do it in around 5.5-6 seconds.

 

What does bother me is the feel. It's probably due to lack of boost like you're saying but there is no enjoyment off the line with these cars. So underwhelming.

 

I tested a Ford Edge Sport with the ecoboost before I got either of my scat packs and maybe I'm misremembering but I could have sworn they had a lot of oomph off the line. Maybe I just didn't know what fast was at that point.

Get a tune. Torque targets are still there but many of the tuners can get a few lbs more off the line and you will be breaking tires loose easily.  You can break torque launch it also and get 4-7lbs at launch. It enough to trigger the traction control for sure and will rearrange anything in your cargo area. 

 

[CrackedDSM]

7 hours ago, Vanquished said:

Meh. 

 

I probably should have done some research or test drove before buying. I didn't realize the fwd bias would make such a difference. Frankly I don't care about the 0-60 time that much. 5.7 seconds is plenty fast. Even in my Scat Packs I only broke 5 seconds occasionally and that felt like lightspeed. Normally I'd do it in around 5.5-6 seconds.

 

What does bother me is the feel. It's probably due to lack of boost like you're saying but there is no enjoyment off the line with these cars. So underwhelming.

 

I tested a Ford Edge Sport with the ecoboost before I got either of my scat packs and maybe I'm misremembering but I could have sworn they had a lot of oomph off the line. Maybe I just didn't know what fast was at that point.

Depending on what year Sport you drove, you probably remember it being faster because the 2015’s are lighter and faster than the ST. As far as launches though, in stock form they launch okay, but not world beating at all. With a tune on my 2015 with 245’s, traction is a joke. If I had traction I absolutely could launch hard. 1.7-1.8 60 foot times easy. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by CrackedDSM

[Fingernip]

9 minutes ago, CrackedDSM said:

Depending on what year Sport you drove, you probably remember it being faster because the 2015’s are lighter and faster than the ST. As far as launches though, in stock form they launch okay, but not world beating at all. With a tune on my 2015 with 245’s, traction is a joke. If I had traction I absolutely could launch hard. 1.7-1.8 60 foot times easy. 

I don't think you will notice .2 seconds to 60mph in the seat-o-pants meter. Real world says the ST is actually quicker anyway though. 

[CrackedDSM]

8 hours ago, Fingernip said:

I don't think you will notice .2 seconds to 60mph in the seat-o-pants meter. Real world says the ST is actually quicker anyway though. 

 

Not 0-60, 60 foot times. Drag racing. 
 

 

and not my real world experience.  

[Gadgetjq]

12 hours ago, CrackedDSM said:

Not 0-60, 60 foot times. Drag racing.

A drag race is 1320 feet.  A 60 foot race is for pedal cars.