call me fickle - why "they" win

[Tacyon]

So .. first let me start off by saying that I love my Edge and if you knew my "off roading" past you'd also know that I don't like (have no need for them nor respect them) Jeeps in any flavor, Okay, I'm hip to Willys MA/MB but for an entirely different reason.

 

I have an situation which I'll do another post for once its all done where my Edge is in a shop for 3-4 weeks and I'm in a rental vehicle. A 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and as Ron White would say .. "its LOOOooooaded !. Feature for feature it's on par with my 2011 Ford Edge Limited with it's 302A package and factory towing package. However, this is where the similarities stop. Chrysler did it better, and took it two steps further.

 

Let me say to all the people, myself included, who are disappointed in the MFT performance and execution, WE HAVE CAUSE TO BE. The "system" as I'll call it in the Jeep is well, instant in response. You press screen buttons and it responds NOW. There is a FUNCTIONING WiFi hotspot feature. There is a uConnect (Jeeps MFT OS) app store where you can actually .. (wait for it .... wait for it) GET APPS FOR THE JEEP's uConnect! Isn't that a revolutionary concept! The weather radar works and works fast. The local theater info is there and nearly instant. Local gas prices, "prego" its in there. There are dash buttons to change modes on "commonly used" (?) functions like traction control, etc. where we have to navigate a menu system. I know this is available on "other ford models" but I"m really jealous that Edge owners don't have this as an option and that is besides heated seats, I want a heated steering wheel and cooled seats !! The cooled seats I'd use way more than I do the heated function. So much so that I'm toying with the idea of doing a conversion myself.

 

Backup cam .. the guidance lines. In the Jeep they bend as you turn while backing up. A "feature" that the flex has. This is 100% programming and only relies on steering sensors that I'd bet the Edge has as well. Why don't we have it ?

 

Tire pressure (the TPS system) in the Jeep shows actual pressures in each tire. If you have one that is low, the display appears and shows you which one. WE have to check each tire until we stumble upon the un-pressure tire. Including the spare ! Again, all programming code as the telemetry data is already in the TPS transmitters.

 

I won't go into the "glass dash" that Jeep did as that would be an apples to apples comparison and is up to individual tastes. I personally like them both but I live for hi-tech.

 

Jeep owns the 4-wheel tech .. so no match there and I think that Chrysler does a better, less disturbing anti-lock brake implementation. No annoying buzzing, vibrating brake pedal. Just the antilock functioning.

 

Here are some pics from the rear area that are examples of "going two steps further" in design and in my opinion why they win. Someone in the Jeep design team actually used their noodle and thought about how someone might use this area in normal day to day usage and in other situations like changing a flat tire solo, in the dark.

 

So .. let me just restate, I'm not bashing (really I'm not) Ford. This is more born out of jealousy and a "come on Ford ... see they can do it" realization. One that I might have not known had I not taken the blue pill. Or in this case, the red one since its the Deep Cherry Red model ! Its going to be hard to give it back when my Edge is done. (more on that later)

[RJG]

What's the window sticker?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

How many of these features show up in the 2015 redesign? I am sure Ford is looking hard at the competition, and at some point they will leapfrog them. My impression from reviews of the govt "rescue" brands is that they are looking to razzle dazzle buyers into not thinking of longterm ownership & reliability, you know, "practical" decision criteria.

[Tacyon]

RJG - nearest I can figure as mine is equipped - 42,311 (truecar.com) to $46,000 MSRP from Jeeps site.

 

Perf ... who knows ... and IMO Ford made its exterior look too much like the other soccer mom crossovers on the road. Maybe its just me and being possessive of my Edge's beauty.

[surfer1]

Cost vs value = eye of the beholder. End of the day, you look hard enough and you can always find a nicer car...but at what cost? Jeep like all the others continue to offer more attractive packages. I think the edge has just enough "nice" about it, that it will carry me forward for the next 5-10 years without another look of what the market has to offer.

[RJG]

My point about asking the sticker is....I believe a loaded Jeep GC like the one you describe is a little higher up the price structure than an Edge. You can option a Jeep GC SRT easily into the 60's. Would expect some upper level stuff. It competes well with BMW X5 and things like that. I notice there are a lot of Jeep GC in the Doctors parking lots alonside the MB, BMW, Jags, hi end Cadilac's etc. No Edges there. No Grand Cherokee Laredo's either.

Edited February 3, 2014 by RJG

[DSofT]

disappointed in the MFT performance and execution

MFT is designed by the same company that makes Windows. I guess it explains everything

[richy]

I love the new GC, especially with the diesel. Diesel makes SO much sense in an SUV. I keep my cars usually 7 years so I'm hoping when I'm ready the GC will have a newer design by then. I love it now.

[ls973800]

Not sure about your statement "WE have to check each tire until we stumble upon the un-pressure tire. Including the spare !" Our (Edges) don't have a sensor in the temporary spare.

 

I looked at the Grand Cherokee back in 2012 when I was looking for a replacement for my truck. I was ready to buy one until I followed a GC forum for about two weeks and couldn't believe the problems with many of the systems in the GC. I know that forums are going to attract negative posts more so than positive, but there were just too many to make me comfortable with actually buying a GC.

 

I still check that forum once in a while, and see that the 2014's still had some major electrical problems early on. I ended up with the Edge even though I would have loved the GC. In the long run, reliability killed the GC for me. Too bad, I thought it was a great vehicle which would have fit my needs and wants very well.

[Tacyon]

I'll update this with a longer drive period eval but the Jeep GC Limited like I'm driving is actually less than my 2011 Edge Limited with 302A and factory towing.

 

Let me reiterate, I love my Edge. While the things that I've cited wouldn't have caused me to purchase a GC over the Edge .. it would have blurred the lines a bit.

 

As for right now what I don't like about the GC :

 

1) while its a few inches narrower judged by the space between the mirrors and the garage door opening, the inside cockpit feels a lot smaller and tighter (read cramped). Wife totally agreed and added, "I like the Edge way more!"

2) in 3 days of "my" driving, its getting 3 mpg worse gas milage at 15.2 mpg.

3) Its verbal comprehension of my voice commands (at least for navigation) is abysmal. Zero success. Granted, I've not learned its language or command structure. But answering its request for street number, street name, city and state failed 7 out of 7 times. I reverted to manual input.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Tacyon

[Mirage52]

The Jeep Cherokee was my favorite SUV I test drove, and I even test drove the 4-cyl because I knew the V6 would have been out of my price range. Even with the 4-cyl and the features I wanted, the Cherokee was still out of my price range. Of course the Jeep GC is nicer because they're $10-15K more than an Edge.

 

The Cherokee was just a few K more, but the Trailhawk is $40K.

 

Ford could use some of the cheap and easy creature comforts like bag holders in the rear, although my cargo net does the job.

[akirby]

I think you should compare that loaded Jeep with a MKX which does have cooled seats and a few other features not on the Edge.

 

I think Ford had big plans for MFT but those plans were completely derailed when BSquare (former Microsoft employees but NOT Microsoft) screwed the pooch and produced a horrible product that took 2 years to get stable. That prevented them from adding features and making significant improvements. I think Ford threw in the towel on the current MFT software once it was relatively stable and started working on the next gen version.

 

I fully expect the next gen MFT to be much more functional and far more stable and responsive than the current one. Have not heard yet when that version will debut but it can't come soon enough.

 

What type of touch screen does the Jeep use? Is it the same type as MFT or different?

[omar302]

The MKX has only a few features more than an Edge. The aforementioned cooled seats, adaptive HID headlights, THX and the leather covered dash. The main advantage of the MKX over the Edge is you can get it loaded with the 3.7L Engine.

 

As for MFT, the reason for its shortcomings, in my opinion, are from Ford's management. To be honest, you would expect that Ford would have its people use the vehicles the final design is sold to consumer, but it just does show. I mean who ever approved the capacitive 4-way flasher button?? Also, how come is the MFT/MLT screen a resistive display, requiring pressure to register inputs while the buttons below it are capacitive working while barely touching them!! I consider myself up to date on tech and sometimes find using those capacitive buttons awkward, especially the volume/fan sliders (supposedly Lincoln upgrades!).

 

Back to topic, I rented a 2011 GC back in 2011 (when the latest generation first debuted) before I got the MKX, and honestly, it did NOT feel premium at all! It was ok, but not great (though it was just above the basic model) & the v6 engine with the old 5 speed was slow. Since I really don't go off-road, there was no reason to choose a GC over an Edge/MKX.

[richy]

I drove the diesel GC with the 8 speed auto about 8 weeks ago and absolutely loved it. The only thing I didn't like about it was the switchgear on the doors and the headliner are the same as in the Durango, and my wife has an '11 Durango Citadel. Very comfortable ride, very responsive with the diesel (especially in Sport mode). I drove the Summit model which is the one I will probably get when the time is right. I just wish the wheels were chrome.

[Waldo]

 

 

Backup cam .. the guidance lines. In the Jeep they bend as you turn while backing up. A "feature" that the flex has. This is 100% programming and only relies on steering sensors that I'd bet the Edge has as well. Why don't we have it ?

 

Tire pressure (the TPS system) in the Jeep shows actual pressures in each tire. If you have one that is low, the display appears and shows you which one. WE have to check each tire until we stumble upon the un-pressure tire. Including the spare ! Again, all programming code as the telemetry data is already in the TPS transmitters.

 

 

The Flex only has the turning backup lines when you pay the extra for the active park system. There are two different types of steering wheel sensors. One is "relative angle" and the more expensive one is the "absolute angle" type. The active park and the turning lines require the absolute angle sensor, so it's not just a case of programming.

 

How does the Jeep TPMS deal with tire rotations? Do you have to reprogram them every time you rotate? With Ford's system, you would have to do this, so Ford chooses not to display the individual tire pressures so that customers don't have to reset the sensors every time they rotate the tires. I think there are systems out there that use multiple antennas such that they can triangulate where the sensors are, but those systems would cost more.

As for the MFT, I don't think anyone in Ford would say anything other than it was a total screw-up, but hopefully the all new system will be out in a year or two with significant improvement.

[akirby]

It's obvious they have some ergonomic work to do, especially with all the redundant controls that IMO are unnecessary. I think the new vehicles will have regular climate controls in the normal spot and no more capacitive controls so that should solve that problem.

 

Again, I think the next version will fix most of these issues - too bad it will be another year or two before we see it.

 

With MKX you also get better materials and more sound deadening and a better warranty. Not sure how the GC fares on those areas compared to the MKX, but the price is closer.

[Tacyon]

Akirby: I’m guessing the 8.4-inch display screen is a resistive touch as I can activate it with my gloves on. Haven't researched.

Re: Comparing the Jeep GC to a MKX would side step my entire statement. I don’t want a MKX as they’re not my style nor is the Flex which also has the cooled seats. I just think that it’s a good idea and why not have it as an option.

 

Omar302: “who ever approved the capacitive 4-way flasher button??” OMG, I've considered disabling that or even adding a secondary lockout switch. Can I get an amen !

 

Waldo: Assuming that your assertion re the absolute versus relative turning angle sensors in the Edge are based on empirical fact and not supposition, I would easily concede since I have no facts and mine comment was supposition born out of a whimsical observation. It makes sense as well.

Re: How does the Jeep TPMS deal with tire rotations? Ans: The same way I do with my Edge. Take it to Discount Tire and they rotate and reprogram the tires for free. And that is not supposition and I don't get dirty.

 

 

I did run into a MAJOR DOH! with the Jeep today. I kind of like the slap shifter on the center console. It lacks the gate of a normal shifter opting to pivot forward/back to activate the various gears. It's a bit awkward at first but I’m sure I’d get used to it. HOWEVER, while driving at highway speeds (or any speed for that matter), if you happen to bump the shifter into neutral you’re screwed! You HAVE to come to a complete stop, hold the brake pedal and a shifter mounted button down to get it back into drive. There is NO way that I have found around this. That is a EPIC fail and a funny one on the expressway today.

[akirby]

Waldo knows what he's talking about.

 

My point was that the price tag on the GC was closer to the MKX than the Edge and you do get things like cooled seats on the MKX. Ford just has 2 models with different price tags and features whereas Jeep just has one. That said, I expect to see cooled seats on the new Edge because other Ford have it now as a high end option.

 

MFT is a resistive screen - you can use it with gloves on and it's much more resilient than capacitive touch and therefore a much better choice for a vehicle. You can get a new cell phone every 2 years - a car touch screen has to last 10-20 years.

 

Why Ford doesn't give actual tire pressure by location is a mystery to me. Maybe Waldo can explain that one.

 

Ford had a big head start with MFT but they hired the wrong company and Bsquare really screwed them with horrible software that was almost impossible to fix. Now they're playing catchup. i'm sure they won't make that mistake again.

[omar302]

Checking the Grand Cherokee's website, it doesn't offer cooled seats. It has available "ventilated seats". Simple fans. Ford/Lincoln has "cooled" seats that actually cool the sear, not just blow air.

 

Taycon: In 2013, Ford changed to a hard button for the 4-way flasher. Was watching the how-to video for the lockpick installation and noticed how simple it was to remove the panel and started wondering if a panel from a 2013 (with the hard button) would work in a 2011.

[Waldo]

 

 

Why Ford doesn't give actual tire pressure by location is a mystery to me. Maybe Waldo can explain that one.

 

As I mentioned above, it comes down to liability and tire rotations. Say Discount Tire forgets to reset the TPMS. As you're driving along, it tells you the LF tire is low. You get out to check and find the LF tire is fine (because it's actually the LR that's low). So you keep on driving, your LR blows and and you crash and die. Your estate then sues because the warning system failed and didn't give you any warning that it wasn't working correctly. Obviously Jeep is willing to take this risk, but Ford is not.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Waldo

[omar302]

 

As I mentioned above, it comes down to liability and tire rotations. Say Discount Tire forgets to reset the TPMS. As you're driving along, it tells you the LF tire is low. You get out to check and find the LF tire is fine (because it's actually the LR that's low). So you keep on driving, your LR blows and and you crash and die. Your estate then sues because the warning system failed and didn't give you any warning that it wasn't working correctly. Obviously Jeep is willing to take this risk, but Ford is not.

Well, Ford is now willing to take the risk, the 2015 Mustang will show each tire's pressure.

[BAYLENSMAN]

Its funny I just red this post for the first time as I'm new to the group. Being in the car buzz for 30+ years before landing a desk job at a different kind of business I can say this.  4 years later if we look at the long term retention of value and  long term satisfaction with reliability aren't  we glad we still drive fords instead of cherokee's?

[pintokid]

 

On 2/14/2019 at 6:17 AM, BAYLENSMAN said:

Its funny I just red this post for the first time as I'm new to the group. Being in the car buzz for 30+ years before landing a desk job at a different kind of business I can say this.  4 years later if we look at the long term retention of value and  long term satisfaction with reliability aren't  we glad we still drive fords instead of cherokee's?

Actually going back to the original post a lot has changed in the Edge. It now has many of those missing features and more. And Sync is greatly improved.

Edited February 16, 2019 by pintokid

[Fingernip]

This is my first time reading this too.

I definitely agree with some aspects of it. Chrysler seems to add a ton of well though semi gimmicky features into their vehicles. I had a $25,000 Dodge caliber R/T AWD before my 2011 Edge Sport. The dodge had a better sound system by far with the flip down lift gate speakers and pop out dome-light flashlight (pretty useless.. my cellphone screen is probably brighter) and all sorts of hooks and handles to make life easier. In the end though it still groaned and creeked, interior panels fluttered with the subwoofer and couldn't manage to reverse up an icy driveway without spinning around in a 180º. I gladly gave up all the little things for everything that made my Edge superior.  

 

[Nick Halstead]

5 hours ago, Fingernip said:

This is my first time reading this too.

I definitely agree with some aspects of it. Chrysler seems to add a ton of well though semi gimmicky features into their vehicles. I had a $25,000 Dodge caliber R/T AWD before my 2011 Edge Sport. The dodge had a better sound system by far with the flip down lift gate speakers and pop out dome-light flashlight (pretty useless.. my cellphone screen is probably brighter) and all sorts of hooks and handles to make life easier. In the end though it still groaned and creeked, interior panels fluttered with the subwoofer and couldn't manage to reverse up an icy driveway without spinning around in a 180º. I gladly gave up all the little things for everything that made my Edge superior.  

 

yeah caliber wasn't their best effort, I dunno what they were thinking. They need to just bring the Neon back.