Water Pump Failure Prevention

[EmilyAnn]

I am interested in buying a 2011 Ford Edge limited. After hearing about the water pump issue and possible engine failure, concerns are raised. It has 76k on it and I can't find any service report in the vehicle history besides registration and such. I have just been through the worst 6 years of vehicle ownership in my life and dont want to get stuck with another faulty car. Everything with the Edge looked perfect until my research lead me to the water pump issue. Any advice is welcome.

[Bradley Young]

Hey Fellow Edgies!

 

OK we all know Ford created a terrible design flaw in the Duratec engine by placing the water pump INSIDE THE ENGINE BLOCK. Someone here suggests it was done deliberately so owners would need to spend more money as the vehicle ages, or to trade it in sooner. I had never considered that SINISTER SCENARIO, but I guess it’s POSSIBLE. But wouldn’t they have thought that the (loyal) Ford owner would then opt for a different manufacturer? If they didn’t consider that then they must be incredibly stupid - or more likely, the decision to place to water pump inside the block was deemed the most expedient solution to nestle the V6 inside the short engine bay - as well as mounting the engine transversely.

Ford made a huge blunder, but I doubt they saw this coming or created the situation intentionally BUT anything is possible.

Now - what can owners of these vehicles do to protect themselves?

The first thing is GO ABOVE AND BEYOND DOING PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE. Someone here mentions flushing the coolant every 30,000 miles. Knowing that coolant becomes more ACIDIC as it ages, I would recommend flushing the cooling system every spring! Regardless of mileage. OR -  if you want to use mileage as a marker, I highly recommend flushing the coolant every 5000 miles. I know that seems crazy - but if you really want to avoid a water pump failure, then take on the responsibility of truly babying your Edge...and every time you flush the coolant, change the oil!

Just my three cents...

Happy New Year!

[akirby]

It was the only reasonable way to fit the large engine transversely in the CD4 platform.  That's the only reason.   And that in and of itself is not a bad thing - there are Edges our there with 300K miles on the original water pump.   Regular coolant changes is definitely recommended as preventative medicine though.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

In all this hullabaloo, let's not forget that Ford created a groundbreaking vehicle, wellbalanced from both a performance and comfort point of view.  We should applaud them for what they did right as well.  Just my 2 cents.

[erikrichard]

On 1/2/2020 at 5:24 PM, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

In all this hullabaloo, let's not forget that Ford created a groundbreaking vehicle, wellbalanced from both a performance and comfort point of view.  We should applaud them for what they did right as well.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Would it have really been that hard to either pick another engine or widen the engine bay another few inches to fit an external water pump? Yeah, it's a great vehicle otherwise, but this was a really stupid thing for Ford to do.

Edited January 7, 2020 by erikrichard

[akirby]

18 hours ago, erikrichard said:

 

Would it have really been that hard to either pick another engine or widen the engine bay another few inches to fit an external water pump?

 

Yes.

[erikrichard]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:52 PM, akirby said:

 

Yes.

 

Not sure why you say yes. Apparently, Ford came out with this engine in order to use it in the Edge. Why in hell would they create an engine for a particular vehicle, that is not sized properly to fit in said vehicle unless they do something ridiculously stupid like stuff the water pump inside the engine? 

They should have either made the engine bays large enough for the Cyclone's water pump to be external, or designed a different engine. Their "solution" was moronic.

Edited January 8, 2020 by erikrichard

[akirby]

20 minutes ago, erikrichard said:

 

Not sure why you say yes. Apparently, Ford came out with this engine in order to use it in the Edge. Why in hell would they create an engine for a particular vehicle, that is not sized properly to fit in said vehicle unless they do something ridiculously stupid like stuff the water pump inside the engine? 

They should have either made the engine bays large enough for the Cyclone's water pump to be external, or designed a different engine. Their "solution" was moronic.

 

Many companies use the same water pump design.  The problem was the seals not the pump location.  And it was designed to replace the 3.0L Duratec V6 in multiple vehicles.

 

I'm sure there are a dozen valid reasons why they didn't make it external.  They didn't just do it because they're stupid.

[erikrichard]

14 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Many companies use the same water pump design.  The problem was the seals not the pump location.  And it was designed to replace the 3.0L Duratec V6 in multiple vehicles.

 

I'm sure there are a dozen valid reasons why they didn't make it external.  They didn't just do it because they're stupid.

 

There is no advantage to a water pump being inaccessible, so I can't imagine any other reason for doing so other than to decrease the footprint of the engine so it would fit in their vehicles. 

I have never heard of a water pump that is designed for the life of a vehicle. In fact, water pumps have always been and always will be a wear item that is expected to be replaced during the life of the vehicle. So the problem isn't just the seals, even if seals don't fail the water pump is still likely to wear out over time and miles and need replacement. And then there is the biggest problem with this design, the likelihood of failure causing a destroyed engine. This idea should have never made it out of the boardroom.

Edited January 8, 2020 by erikrichard

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, erikrichard said:

 

There is no advantage to a water pump being inaccessible, so I can't imagine any other reason for doing so other than to decrease the footprint of the engine so it would fit in their vehicles. 

I have never heard of a water pump that is designed for the life of a vehicle. In fact, water pumps have always been and always will be a wear item that is expected to be replaced during the life of the vehicle. So the problem isn't just the seals, even if seals don't fail the water pump is still likely to wear out over time and miles and need replacement. And then there is the biggest problem with this design, the likelihood of failure causing a destroyed engine. This idea should have never made it out of the boardroom.

The pump is designed to last 150k miles just like all the other parts.  I personally know of at least 2 Edges with between 250k and 300k miles on the original water pump.  
 

But you can believe whatever you want to believe.

[erikrichard]

6 minutes ago, akirby said:

The pump is designed to last 150k miles just like all the other parts.  I personally know of at least 2 Edges with between 250k and 300k miles on the original water pump.  
 

But you can believe whatever you want to believe.

 

Thanks for giving me permission to have my own opinion. I give you the same.

[Waldo]

 

17 hours ago, erikrichard said:

 

There is no advantage to a water pump being inaccessible, so I can't imagine any other reason for doing so other than to decrease the footprint of the engine so it would fit in their vehicles. 

I have never heard of a water pump that is designed for the life of a vehicle. 

 

Do you know of any manufacturers out there that recommend water pump replacements as part of scheduled maintenance?

 

The Edge and Fusion of the time were based on a Mazda platform.  It would have costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make the engine bay wider, and even then, would have resulted in a vehicle with poor turning circle and worse fuel economy.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Waldo

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The Edge and Fusion of the time were based on a Mazda platform.  It would have costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make the engine bay wider, and even then, would have resulted in a vehicle with poor turning circle and worse fuel economy.

 

I already tried explaining this, but he would rather just believe the engineers are stupid.

[erikrichard]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

 

 

Do you know of any manufacturers out there that recommend water pump replacements as part of scheduled maintenance?

 

The Edge and Fusion of the time were based on a Mazda platform.  It would have costs hundreds of millions of dollars to make the engine bay wider, and even then, would have resulted in a vehicle with poor turning circle and worse fuel economy.

 

No. Do you know of any manufacturers out there that recommend alternator or starter motor replacements as part of scheduled maintenance? Or even tires? Such a silly argument.

The real problem with this design is failure of a wear item like a water pump can destroy the engine. Forget that a wp replacement costs $2k, that's not the worst part of it. And it's happened to many, even under 150k miles. Do a search on Flex, Edge and Taurus 3.5l water pump failure. This design is indefensible, I actually find it pretty amusing there are people trying to defend such a dumb design. Ford should have designed an engine that would fit in these vehicles with an external wp. If that meant losing a few hp then so be it. If that meant that a 6 cyl engine was impossible, then whoever designed these vehicles with such small engine bays should have been fired and new vehicles should have been drawn up.

Edited January 9, 2020 by erikrichard

[Special_K]

6 minutes ago, erikrichard said:

 

No. Do you know of any manufacturers out there that recommend alternator or starter motor replacements as part of scheduled maintenance? Or even tires? Such a silly argument.

The real problem with this design is failure of a wear item like a water pump can destroy the engine. Forget that a wp replacement costs $2k, that's not the worst part of it. And it's happened to many, even under 150k miles. Do a search on Flex, Edge and Taurus 3.5l water pump failure. This design is indefensible, I actually find it pretty amusing there are people trying to defend such a dumb design. Ford should have designed an engine that would fit in these vehicles with an external wp. If that meant losing a few hp then so be it. If that meant that a 6 cyl engine was impossible, then whoever designed these vehicles with such small engine bays should have been fired and new vehicles should have been drawn up.

 

You know that every design has its weak points right?  Being an engineer myself you cant satisfy every requirement all the time, most likely this was a compromise and i bet it wont be done again with a new block.  Its literally cheaper to pay for replacement than to be resigned.  just accept its a flaw and move on ?

[erikrichard]

2 hours ago, Special_K said:

 

You know that every design has its weak points right?  Being an engineer myself you cant satisfy every requirement all the time, most likely this was a compromise and i bet it wont be done again with a new block.  Its literally cheaper to pay for replacement than to be resigned.  just accept its a flaw and move on ?

 

I'll try to remember your comforting words of wisdom if my wp ever turns my Edge into a 2 ton boat anchor.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, erikrichard said:

This design is indefensible, I actually find it pretty amusing there are people trying to defend such a dumb design.

 

Nobody is defending the design, we're just explaining why it was done.  Change the coolant every 30K - 60K miles and you'll greatly reduce the chances of a failure.

 

Ford has conservatively sold close to 2 million of these particular engines since 2006.  The actual failure rate is pretty low.

[akirby]

21 minutes ago, erikrichard said:

 

I'll try to remember your comforting words of wisdom if my wp ever turns my Edge into a 2 ton boat anchor.

 

If it bothers you that much go trade it.

[erikrichard]

18 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

If it bothers you that much go trade it.

 

I knew that one was coming. I've thought about it, it does seem pretty stupid of me to keep a vehicle with a ticking time bomb inside the engine. I'm probably going to keep it and keep my fingers crossed, I don't drive much these days.

This has nothing to do with the stupid decision to make the wp timing chain driven though, it's still stupid even if I keep the Edge. Which is otherwise a great vehicle.

[Special_K]

On 1/9/2020 at 4:21 PM, erikrichard said:

 

I'll try to remember your comforting words of wisdom if my wp ever turns my Edge into a 2 ton boat anchor.

 

i got you bro, if you need any other words of wisdom for you to ignore let me know bruh .  

P.s. - it would be a 2 ton land anchor....unless you are gonna tow it and dump into a body of water.

[Metroplex]

Just thought I'd chime in:

The Taurus/Explorer D3/D4 platform has a subframe that sits right next to where the external water pump would fit, so the 3.5 wouldn't be able to have an external water pump due to clearance problems. At lease this is what I observed on my 2018 Explorer and my 2014 SHO. On the Edge, I'm sure it was the same issue but maybe not.

 

On my Fusion Sport, the 2.7L EcoBoost fits into the car and has an external water pump but the 2.7/3.0 is an entirely different engine (with its own leaky oil pan issues). The Fusion Sport PTU has a drain plug and a fill plug, and has coolant running into a PTU cooler.

 

I've heard Police departments having to replace the water pumps on their 3.5/3.7 Interceptors every 50k miles. I seriously doubt their coolant got too acidic in that short amount of time. Their engine oil usually gets changed every 5k miles.

[PaulSchott]

I am not complaining,  I did the $1700 pump replacement and have just flushed the coolant at about 30,000 miles after. 

As far as the necessity of placing the pump internally I had a 98 Ford Contour Sport with the 2.8 24V V6.  Similar setup.   The water pump was driven off one of the  cam shafts with a pulley  and tensioner setup.  I changed the pump in about an hour.  Remove about 8 screws and just swap the pump. (May have been 10 or 12 screws. don't call me a liar.)  The plastic impeller failed and spun on the shaft.   People on the forum complained about Ford using a plastic impeller.

My point is that when you design a car there are many failure points.  Some show up unexpectedly early in the lifecycle of the vehicle. 

[Larry]

Hello, I would like your thoughts about using bars leak water pump lube to help prevent failure.  I changed coolant at 60,000.  Only 68,000 on car now.   I posted picture of what I'm talking about

 

2013 Edge 3.5

Thanks

Larry

[David Young]

I'll be flushing the coolant in our 2014 Edge this summer for the first time. It has a little over 40,000 miles. I have the external water pump on my 2011 3.7 Mustang with 33,000 miles but have flushed it 2 times and will be flushing the coolant for the 3rd time this summer when I do the Edge. I over kill everything because I'm retired and like to waste time and money. I always add Royal Purple Ice to the coolant change on my Mustang (each time) and will be adding it to the Edge. It says it has conditioners in it to help water pumps last longer. I guess it works because it is common for the water pumps to go bad on the 3.7 Mustangs, mine is still going strong, but it is a simple change when it does go bad   

[Larry]

Hi David, Next time I get to wally world I'll check out Royal Purple. I purchased the bars leak lube for winterizing my pressure washer.  Couple ounces of anti freeze and small amount of bars leak lube. The I thought it may help prevent failure of water pump in my Edge. ( very poor design )  I'm also retired, 76 years young,  have time on my hands and like you always thinking about over kill , must be how we were raised??  Our Edge has 68,000 on it now, So far no problems. I did change belts, more over kill.  Still have original tires and brakes. Hard to believe how well the Michelin tires wear. Rotate about 7,000 miles. I switched from Motorcraft synthetic blend oil to Valvoline full synthetic .  After switching oil the mpg increased about 1 mpg, engine is quieter and smoother. We take a 3 to 4 thousand mile road trip every year, average mpg has been 26.6 - 26.7  I think pretty good.  I drive the speed limits or a little over. Sorry about being long winded

Larry

Northwest, In.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Larry
changed response